Big Bear June 9th

[toycrawler5481]

Well glad you guys made it through! I bent up my tie rod in Calico, not that bad though. When I did Holcomb a few months ago with the WF group, one of the guys bent up his tie rod on the gate keeper so bad that he couldn't continue. That will probably be one of my next upgrades. Luckily they're not that expensive compared to some of the other stuff.

Yeah, there wasn't really any chance that I was going to try JB. I do want to check it out as a passenger sometime though. That and Dishpan!

Glad all of you had a good time and nobody had any major damage or injuries! His drag link was like toothpick thin lol! I'm sure yours stock is alot better, yeah we were headed the right way, about a mile maybe from where we ate lunch, maybe a bit closer, should have trusted my gut haha!

Almost forgot to ask: So we really were close to the Gatekeeper and not running it in reverse? That spot where we stopped, how far is that from the gatekeeper?

His drag link was like toothpick thin lol, we were about a mile or less from the gatekeeper from where we ate lunch, doubted myself, should just went a bit farther

[toycrawler5481]

That is so true.

However in Toycrawler5481's case we exchanged PMs earlier in the week and he was well aware that his buggy was not legal to travel on Gold Mountain, John Bull, 3N16 or any of the other trails in the area. He chose to do it anyway and now his exploits are on OUR forum for you know who to use against us.

I respect this site and apologize, your were very respectful and appreciate the pm's moving forward no one needs to post any pics of my rig, thank you

[toycrawler5481]

If he was aware of it, then shame on him, don't think he was the one posting this pic. Not that hard for Sarah or any other Moderator to remove what needs removing. It is good to work on the awareness of this though, since every so often you do see green sticker bikes quads and what not where they do not belong. Not as often as you would think though, which is a good thing

Thanks for defending me aw12345, very admirable, no problem all, won't be posting anything to deminish this site....

[dakota123]

Been here... ya need to get a photobucket type account and load your pics there. Once they are loaded there is an option to link the photo to another board such as this. With photobucket there is a large and small pic option, I choose the small most times, just quicker.

Thank you im jsut used to jeep forum where you can add them in from the reply box

[JK08]

That is so true.

However in Toycrawler5481's case we exchanged PMs earlier in the week and he was well aware that his buggy was not legal to travel on Gold Mountain, John Bull, 3N16 or any of the other trails in the area. He chose to do it anyway and now his exploits are on OUR forum for you know who to use against us.

I totally get the posting pics on MJR or any other forum and I am not trying to be an ass but I am new to this sport and one day would like to enjoy a buggy of my own. So please school me on this subject.
1. Why are certain trails for certain vehicles?
2. Is it kind of like segregation?
3. What is the difference, Is it a government issued catalytic converter, some lights and more taxes such as higher registration that dictates who, what where when and why people can have fun on American soil?


IMO This is kind of like Kalifornia and the whole we will let you buy an AR15 but it is gunna suck butt. We will weld a 10 round magazine to the receiver so it is ridiculously hard for you to load when someone is trying to kill you…

Lets go wheelin,

Danny

[aw12345]

Well atleast we do have still trails and open OHV areas available to us. Not some sucky pay to play parks 6 or 7 hours away.
So if they come with a few rules attached, I would say take the good with the bad. Does it make sense, kinda depends how you look at it.
Some of those roads don't need KOH buggies doing 100 plus miles an hour on it or like 3n16 would be a heck of a lot less fun if it had a ton of dirt bikes flying up and down it. Just saying there might be something to it

[dakota123]

Well atleast we do have still trails and open OHV areas available to us. Not some sucky pay to play parks 6 or 7 hours away.
So if they come with a few rules attached, I would say take the good with the bad. Does it make sense, kinda depends how you look at it.
Some of those roads don't need KOH buggies doing 100 plus miles an hour on it or like 3n16 would be a heck of a lot less fun if it had a ton of dirt bikes flying up and down it. Just saying there might be something to it

yeah you kinda have to look at it both ways and take it as it is... i heard that they were thinking bout closing a lot of the san bernardino trails due to the marine base expansion... so runs like cleghorn could be in danger... so we best respect what we got open to us now and not give them any excuses to close runs down...

[FishPOET]

I totally get the posting pics on MJR or any other forum and I am not trying to be an ass but I am new to this sport and one day would like to enjoy a buggy of my own. So please school me on this subject.
1. Why are certain trails for certain vehicles?
2. Is it kind of like segregation?
3. What is the difference, Is it a government issued catalytic converter, some lights and more taxes such as higher registration that dictates who, what where when and why people can have fun on American soil?


IMO This is kind of like Kalifornia and the whole we will let you buy an AR15 but it is gunna suck butt. We will weld a 10 round magazine to the receiver so it is ridiculously hard for you to load when someone is trying to kill you…

Lets go wheelin,

Danny

The best advice I can give you is to actually get involved with the process. It is a complex process. One extreme is anarchy where anyone can do anything they want anytime they want anywhere they want on public land. The other extreme is public lands are closed to public access. To find out more about the process you could come to our Adopt-A-Trail Meet & Greet

I can't speak for other land managers but the group that manages the SBNF have worked together with us to keep over 1300 miles of off highway routes open to the public. Considering the lack of funds in the budget to maintain those routes that in of itself is a pretty amazing.

If the routes are open to green sticker vehicles then they would be open to all motorcycles, ATVs, dune buggies, side by sides, go carts and off road buggies. MCs, ATVs and side by sides typically enjoy going fast. Their routes are designed differently than the street legal roads where cars and trucks typically travel much slower. We (MJR) manage 3N93 Holcomb Creek. It is a street legal route and it would look far different if it was open to the green sticker crowd. I think most of us enjoy 3N93 the way it is and we are glad that we don't have to worry about the go fast group around every corner.

Another factor is that there really isn't anything challenging for the buggies in the SBNF. The enjoyment they derive from Johnson Valley cannot be duplicated in the SBNF. In Johnson Valley they are free to go anywhere. There is not any cross country travel allowed in the SBNF and for good reason. Too many times in an effort to "find challenging terrain" the buggies go off trail and that becomes a lose-lose situation for all of us.

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="red"]Well atleast we do have still trails and open OHV areas available to us. Not some sucky pay to play parks 6 or 7 hours away.[/COLOR]So if they come with a few rules attached, I would say take the good with the bad. Does it make sense, kinda depends how you look at it.
Some of those roads don't need KOH buggies doing 100 plus miles an hour on it or like 3n16 would be a heck of a lot less fun if it had a ton of dirt bikes flying up and down it. Just saying there might be something to it

[COLOR="sienna"]Absolutely Art! As a Michigan boy...trust me, you don't want to be corralled into "pay to play" parks, or wheeling dirt roads. Kalifornia has a unique situation of being one of the more conservationalist & "green" states around, and yet we can enjoy offroading in many of the National Forests, State Parks, and State OHV areas. It's distressing that many (and I'm not talking toycrawler5481, but MANY - we've all seen them) Kalifornians seem to have adopted the "if I don't get caught, it aint illegal; so lets party!" towards these endangered areas we enjoy. Unfortunately, the people who are in power to close trails and offroad areas are under the idea that it's a priviledge they provide us, not our right as citizens to enjoy our sport. Until someone figures out a way to fix that, we gotta play by their rules.

Dakota ~ I'm not sure which base expansion you're speaking of. If you're talking about the 29 Palms Marine Base taking over Johnson Valley, then yea it's a real problem. I'd be interested to know how Cleghorn is in danger from the Marine Base expansion. If you have a link to point in that direction PLEASE post it up in a new thread under Land Use forum. I think you may be speaking of the Wind Farm Project, but your point is still valid.

JK08 ~ I understand it's not optimal. But the system is there for a reason. Looking at it from another direction, this what I get from the Forest Service Rules. Vehicles that are registered/plated are restricted to limited modifications. Exhaust systems being one of those. Vehicles that are not registered for highway use are not. So I could run straight headers, perhaps (although remote) causing a fire with a spark, or distressing wildlife. By making trails street legal use only, the Forest Service falls under the umbrella of current DMV restrictions already in place, and knows that vehicles will have seat belts, catalytic converter, muffler... all the requirements of the road.

toycrawler5481 ~ I know I won't post any pics. Ignorance of the Forest Service rules has bit me in the a$$ more than once. It's nieve to think that everyone on MJR follows ALL the rules ALL the time. But we try very hard here. You've been around a while.

</RANT> [/COLOR]

[Materdaddy]

I'd like to add that posting pictures of non-street legal buggies on street legal routes is not the problem. It's the buggy where it's not supposed to be. If it weren't where it shouldn't be, there would be no pictures to begin with.

[JK08]

If the routes are open to green sticker vehicles then they would be open to all motorcycles, ATVs, dune buggies, side by sides, go carts and off road buggies. MCs, ATVs and side by sides typically enjoy going fast. Their routes are designed differently than the street legal roads where cars and trucks typically travel much slower. We (MJR) manage 3N93 Holcomb Creek. It is a street legal route and it would look far different if it was open to the green sticker crowd. I think most of us enjoy 3N93 the way it is and we are glad that we don't have to worry about the go fast group around every corner.

Makes sense I am coming from the desert scene I have rode dirt bikes for years and at one point it was hard to ride cause there were just too many people of all different levels running the same roads. A few trips out off of the 15 my son and I are putting along the trails and we get passed by 3 trophy trucks doing 80+ they were in control but still kinda of scary.

I guess I will do my research before I build or buy and weigh my options.

[toycrawler5481]

Another factor is that there really isn't anything challenging for the buggies in the SBNF. The enjoyment they derive from Johnson Valley cannot be duplicated in the SBNF. In Johnson Valley they are free to go anywhere. There is not any cross country travel allowed in the SBNF and for good reason. Too many times in an effort to "find challenging terrain" the buggies go off trail and that becomes a lose-lose situation for all of us.

Well put Fishpoet, I respect completely where you are coming from, first off, I have no intentions of defending my actions... I know what I did and you are completely on the right, I can't speak for anyone else who thrashes and has no regard for any of Our lands, it's all we have, we have to take care of it, the temptation got the best of me, but with all do respect I feel a little stereotyped by this whole incident as some fire starting toxic waste dumping character who has no regard for our lands, john bull was a blast and was very challenging!(even for a buggy) Just because I have a buggy doesn't mean I want to go 300 miles an hour and run down any other rig in my way and rearrange the trail with my loud music and disregard for authority, that's honestly how I feel I'm being labeled, again Im not defending what I did at all, but I know for a dang fact I'm not perfect, that's still no excuse, but I and anyone else who has a buggy would sure appreciate how u portray us... On a case by case basis not to be pigeon held by a stereotype, ask anyone who has wheeled with me both this past trip and before, I'm not that guy, either way you're in the right and I know what I did, I'm just asking to remind everyone when posting that no matter what circumstances no one deserves to be judged by their cover, thank you

[FishPOET]

We all want to be judged individually rather than stereotyped. I want people to know that I use a motorized vehicle as a means to explore the backcountry with my family and friends. The reality is that most people who don't know anything about what I do think I'm a drunk redneck tearin up the wilderness. Only after they get to know me do they find out that although I are a redneck, I don't drink and I spend far more hours in the forest helping others than I do actually enjoying myself wheeling.

My comments about buggies looking for challenging terrain were not directed at you rather they come from my 2500 plus hours spent in the SBNF on patrol and doing restoration work. I have on too many occasions run into the "pirate4x4" crowd out on our street legal routes (and too many times off our designated routes) in buggies with beer in their hands and many empties scattered all over the trail.

I don't know you. My first impression was not positive but you are taking positive steps now to distance yourself from the ugliness that is the few who get us all stereotyped.

[toycrawler5481]

Thank you

We all want to be judged individually rather than stereotyped. I want people to know that I use a motorized vehicle as a means to explore the backcountry with my family and friends. The reality is that most people who don't know anything about what I do think I'm a drunk redneck tearin up the wilderness. Only after they get to know me do they find out that although I are a redneck, I don't drink and I spend far more hours in the forest helping others than I do actually enjoying myself wheeling.

My comments about buggies looking for challenging terrain were not directed at you rather they come from my 2500 plus hours spent in the SBNF on patrol and doing restoration work. I have on too many occasions run into the "pirate4x4" crowd out on our street legal routes (and too many times off our designated routes) in buggies with beer in their hands and many empties scattered all over the trail.


I don't know you. My first impression was not positive but you are taking positive steps now to distance yourself from the ugliness that is the few who get us all stereotyped.

Thank you!!!! That's very much appreciated! Even Poetic!( Pun intented) joking aside thank you for not judging me on what I drive rather who I am, i look forward to wheeling with soon( right trails of course) and getting to know u, I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say" thank you for the time and effort you have dedicated to keeping our tails open!" just know that where ever I am I always do my part, I've participated in almost every cleanup held, to calico, hammers, big bear( one of the earlier pics posted shows a bag tied to my rig, that's for picking up trash people leave behind). I don't blame you for having any preconceived notions brotha because a lot of people do make all of us wheelers look bad, and yes sometimes especially the buggy guys but I like all of you appreciate the comradery and friendship more than even the wheeling, that's really I was so tempted to go on this trip, excited to meet more great people from this site, and I did! So again thank you and again outta respect for you and this site I wont post anything you wouldn't stand for, and that doesn't necessarily mean I'm out breaking the law every chance I get and just hiding it but rather be a bit more consciousness to help keep this site in the best light.

[novabrian72]

Hope you don't mind me posting a couple pictures.



Is it just me or does your drag link look bent?







Why so many black Jeeps?

That's a custom bend for extreme wheelin.I can bend yours too for only $300.Let me know if you're interested.