Problems in Rattlesnake Canyon

[Roger]

just some observations, nothing more.

29,000 acres = more/less 60 square miles; that's a huge area.

Did he acquire some/all of Fishers grazing lands/rights?

Since Rattlesnake is BLM land, I doubt he could close it; although he has grazing rights, he has no legal right to close or fence access off; much like mining law. (I'm not a lawyer)

not trying to start a range war here, but he knows what he can and can't do.

it would be best when out on the trail to look after Mr. Mitchells interests; use your eyes and ears and let him know what you see going on out there; he can't be everywhere at once. If you see someone doing something wrong, report it.

The area is seeing increased use by enthusiests who have less and less areas to recreate in.

In Mr. Mitchells case, with his cattle operation, he most likley realizes that it's just a matter of time before someone or some group wants to get his cattle off the land entirely. He must feel like the whole world/civilization is closing in around him. I sympathize with him.

It's sad and a real shame that entire families have been forced out of several generations worth of hard work and a way of life that some politicians or groups say are harming species that have co-existed with the ranches and their families forever....

He said his ranch runs from the boundry of the conservatory property to arrasta Canyon. He stated that he also has the rights to run his cattle in the wilderness area, because he's grandfathered in.

He told me he did aquire Fishers grazing rights.

He knows he can't close it. If fact he was instrumental in keeping Rattlesnake Canyon open when the discussions were taking place forming the Bighorn Wilderness area.

His big issue is the welfare of his cattle. He has had to put down two head of cattle and one horse that was hit by off roaders hauling ass through the canyon. This his livelyhood.

Since I live in Lucerne Valley I'm especially sensitive to his problems. That's why I volunteered to head this up.

Your statement: "it would be best when out on the trail to look after Mr. Mitchells interests; use your eyes and ears and let him know what you see going on out there; he can't be everywhere at once. If you see someone doing something wrong, report it" is perfect. He would welcome this help.

Thanks

[Mitch]

Jim,

Good points and comments. If Billy Mitchell aquired Dave Fishers grazing rights and land, I belive that was all off Camp Rock Road in the north Ord Mountains. The property looks like it has been abandoned for a long time. Next time I see Billy Mitchell I will inquire. Thanks again Roger for the time you have spent on this.

Mitch

[mkjeepers]

[COLOR="Blue"]FYI - I talked with the BLM ranger today and mentioned the issues with Billy. He knows Billy well.

Any of the BLM land that is leased is still BLM land and the ranchers are not allowed to block any entry to the public land, or chase you off - including Rattlesnake Cyn. It is still open public land. This applies to all BLM land, unless there is some other arrangement.

As has been mentioned from the beginning to go the extra mile and voluntarily comply with Billy's requests I think is in everyone's best interest, and making other off-road clubs aware of the issue will hopefully help keep any more contensions from happening. The canyon has been recently "signed" at Billy resedence as well as at the cattle water troughs instructing to leave the cattle alone. So I guess we could encourage others to do so.

BTW the IE4W club has gotten the message from ome of the forums and posted it on their club forum. So it looks like the word is getting out.

Thanks for your work Roger.

mk[/COLOR]

[Guest]

[COLOR="Blue"]FYI - I talked with the BLM ranger today and mentioned the issues with Billy. He knows Billy well.

Any of the BLM land that is leased is still BLM land and the ranchers are not allowed to block any entry to the public land, or chase you off - including Rattlesnake Cyn. It is still open public land. This applies to all BLM land, unless there is some other arrangement.

As has been mentioned from the beginning to go the extra mile and voluntarily comply with Billy's requests I think is in everyone's best interest, and making other off-road clubs aware of the issue will hopefully help keep any more contensions from happening. The canyon has been recently "signed" at Billy resedence as well as at the cattle water troughs instructing to leave the cattle alone. So I guess we could encourage others to do so.

BTW the IE4W club has gotten the message from ome of the forums and posted it on their club forum. So it looks like the word is getting out.

Thanks for your work Roger.

mk[/COLOR]

Great legal work there!I am glad you were able to get some information from the BLM.

[Mitch]

Mike,

Thanks for the info. I knew the stuff that you posted as well as the relationship with Billy and the BLM. I agree that any help we can give him will benifit us all. But that is an open route and he can not close it. That special canyon...... Give me a break, one rain and it's like nobody was ever there. I'll be out there this weekend and investigate further.

Thanks again for the post.

Mitch

[mkjeepers]

Mike,

Thanks for the info. I knew the stuff that you posted as well as the relationship with Billy and the BLM. I agree that any help we can give him will benifit us all. But that is an open route and he can not close it. That special canyon...... Give me a break, one rain and it's like nobody was ever there. I'll be out there this weekend and investigate further.

Thanks again for the post.

Mitch

[COLOR="Blue"]You know Mitch, I was out at the C Buttes today and all the tracks we put on the Boulder Bash trail 4 months ago were almost completly gone. You could bearly even find the route. So yea, the desert reclaims it's self very fast.

mk[/COLOR]

[Roger]

I was just conducting an internet search of websites that have posted the Rattlesnake Canyon Message! It's amazing how many sites it's posted on already.

I also found the BLM Document "Environmental Assessment Livestock Grazing Authorization ... Allotment Name: Rattlesnake Canyon"

Here's the link to it if you wat to read it. It's 67 pages!

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...A680-06-80.pdf

[karstic]

It's been posted on NAXJA

[jpflat2a]

yep, report vandals, target shooters who damage water tanks and troughs,signs, any other bad folks out there.

I don't see the thrill of trying to run over or injure cattle, seems dangerous to me....

[Mikegyver1]

A friend of mine hit a cow in the road about 20 years ago. He was traveling about 35-40 mph in a blind corner. He was able to hit the brakes, but not stop in time. $3000 in damage to the jeep (totaled) and $1500 for the cow (dead). Believe it or not the cow has the right away..not you..:whip:

[Roger]

Website Up!

[COLOR="Blue"]The Rattlesnake Canyon Trail website is now up. Presently it's very basic and Sarah will be adding more stuff to it as time allows. We wanted to get something going while this is still a hot topic. Here's the Link: http://www.rattlesnakecanyontrail.com/

There's lots more we want to add to the site. If there's anything you want to add, please let us know and KEEP SPREADING THE WORD!!

Thanks Sarah for the technical & moral support for this project.[/COLOR]

[mkjeepers]

[COLOR="Blue"]Nice wright up and web site Sarah and Roger.[/COLOR]

[MrBash]

http://www.rattlesnakecanyontrail.com/ posted to

www.JK-Forum.com and www.WranglerForum.com

[freewaydan]

This info was passed on to the Roughwheelers as well, a group of 12 are running it today. I did inform the group leader of the concerns of the rancher.

[Mitch]

Thanks Danny,

Was that the group from Southbay 4x4? I met them this morning and they said that they were aware of the situation. It is great that the word has spread, hopefully everyone will add a positive note to this situation.

Mitch