Problems in Rattlesnake Canyon

[Mitch]

Relax!!!!!!!! Just too funny.

[Desert Jewel]

Roger I might be interested in tagging along on Saturday if you're going out there....since the Odessa/Doran night run last Friday I've got wheelin' itch again!! LOL

[brokenujoint]

how about putting in some 'speed bumps' to keep people from speeding thru?

[headhunter]

I'd also be happy to pitch in with a 10-spot. Just let us know when and where to send our support and when you need help doing the work.

Maybe we could have multiple signs if there is enough money donated.

The signs could say different things, so that the messages don't get diluted by putting too much on one sign. That reminds me of the old Burma Shave signs on Route 66, but that's not what I'm going for here.

I'm just thinking that posting something specific to not disturbing livestock by the troughs closer to the troughs is a good idea and something about speed, dust and noise might be most appropriate when entering the area.

Maybe "Now Entering Private Property" would be appropriate if that's actually the case with a lease like this.

Maybe adding "Next 8 Miles" (or whatever the distance is) would be appropriate similar to the daytime headlight signs.

I think that "Please help keep this trail open" should come first (that's the hook) with the laundry list of what we want them to do below it.

The idea of putting "sign donated by MyJeepRocks.com/Local 4-Wheel Drive Clubs" or something showing that it's not an irrate land owner has merit. I think it may serve to get people to see it differently than "The Man" telling them what to do or not to do.

I'm thinking out loud here and this is a somewhat random collection of thoughts that popped into my head. Maybe something here will help generate another idea that might maximize our effectiveness.

Roger, thanks for doing this. If nothing else, it helps paint a different image for the public than a caricature of 4-wheeling enthusiasts that care about nothing, but their own recreation. It shows that we care and strive to be responsible on various levels.

Christian

[Materdaddy]

My thoughts for putting MJR on there is so readers would know the sign was posted by concerned off-roaders and not an upset land owner.

It's not a "deal-breaker" for me. If we drop the MJR we should at least put someing like: Thanks - Concerned Off-Roaders. Any other ideas?

Good point. I'm not sure how much extra weight it will hold coming from us than the land-owner, but it might help a little bit.

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="Sienna"]Christian has some really good ideas with merit. Private property signs IMO are the responsibility of the land owner. However, if he puts those up, it usually means it's too late and the party is over.[/COLOR]

[Materdaddy]

[COLOR="Sienna"]Christian has some really good ideas with merit. Private property signs IMO are the responsibility of the land owner. However, if he puts those up, it usually means it's too late and the party is over.[/COLOR]

x2. Pretty much everything Christian mentioned sounded good.

(admittedly, I only know about burma shave ads after a wikipedia search after this web-comic: http://xkcd.com/491/)

[headhunter]

(admittedly, I only know about burma shave ads after a wikipedia search after this web-comic: http://xkcd.com/491/)

That was a pretty funny web comic, but I can imagine that you'd be left scratching your head if you didn't know about the Burma Shave ads.

Some of them are still up on parts of Route 66 for the sake of nostalgia.

Christian

[jimmyrig]

Okay I am also late to the party.......... I don't belong to any of the Dirt bike sites or non 4x4 related.. What about getting another MJR type website involved that is bike related?

Say we get 10 signs made:
5 say ( MJR )
5 say ( Dritbike???)

My reason for this is to get buy in from the other off road crowd. They will begin to take ownership of this as well. We can police our own all we want. However, if the other groups do not join us then we still lose!

My 2

and put me down for 10

[headhunter]

Okay I am also late to the party.......... I don't belong to any of the Dirt bike sites or non 4x4 related.. What about getting another MJR type website involved that is bike related?

Say we get 10 signs made:
5 say ( MJR )
5 say ( Dritbike???)

My reason for this is to get buy in from the other off road crowd. They will begin to take ownership of this as well. We can police our own all we want. However, if the other groups do not join us then we still lose!

My 2

and put me down for 10

Great point Jimmy!

If we can get various segments of the off road community to take ownership of this issue, this would have the greatest chance of success right out of the gate. It also helps the non-offroad crowd take notice of our good intentions through word of mouth or maybe even coverage by a local news source.

It could become a model for cooperation between groups for solving other issues before they grow into a situation that can't be easily and amicably resolved.

This sort of 'win-win" would make the entire off road community appear as the good guys that they really are and would go a long way to keeping others from getting the upper hand with anti-offroad legislation. We can rally positive support in the court of public opinion.

Christian

[jimmyrig]

Christian, this could be a great model for other areas to copy!

[Roger]

Brief update - Not really too much to report until I talk with the rancher. Sarah & I have been doing some behind the scenes things, and we'll have more information soon I hope.

If we go through with this it looks like we can all pitch in through pay pal. For those that don't do Pay pal, I'll get you an address where to send in your contribution.

Ths response to this has been just awesome. Thanks everyone! You all ROCK!

[Roger]

Udate

[COLOR="Blue"]Okay here's a few things to report:

1. I drove out to Billy Mitchell's place. When I got to the road that goes to his ranch house, the gate as locked and it's too far to holler to get his attention. I wrote him a note asking him to give me a call if he can.

2. Sarah Created a website called www.rattlesnakecanyontrail.com there is nothing on it yet but we wanted to capture the name while it was available. The idea of the site is to promote education for the trail and we'll be posting photos, maps information, and the concerns of the grazing area the trail passes through. So if you have a good map, gps cooridinates etc. please send them to Sarah!

3. I'm posting a trail ride for tomorrow morning in hopes of catching up to Billy Mitchell. I also want to take some photos of the entrance to the grazing land that shows the signs he recently posted. In fact we probably don't need to post a sign there, but perhaps on the other end of his grazing area and on the other trail going into the canyon. Part of the trip tomorrow is to explore the other entrance off of Hwy 247. I don't want to check it out solo. So if you have a few free hours in the morning, please join me. I know it's a very late notice and I know that a bunch of already have plans for trails tomorrow.[/COLOR]

[Roger]

My visit with Billy & Julie Mitchell

[COLOR="Blue"][COLOR="Blue"]We I met with Billy & Julie Mitchell yesterday. I was a bit awkward at first since I was a stranger to them. I spent the first few minutes explaining who I was, how my wife & I raised or childern in Lucene Valley and the that my wife's family has a long history in the Mojave Desert homesteading in Landfair Valley and her Great Grandfather built the School in Goffs.

Through the discussion we discovered that we have several mutual friends and Julie and my sister-in-law worked together at the school district. (Lucerne Valley has all the good things about a small town!)

I then explaind what MJR was all about and a group of us wanted to help him with his concerns regarding off-roaders[/COLOR].

That seems to break the ice and from there Billy opened up and we had a great conversation. Here's a few facts you should know:

• His ranch is 29,000 acres and is the last cattle ranch in the Lucerne Valley area.
• All of Rattlesnake Canyon is within his ranch
• It is because of him that we can travel through Rattlesnake Canyon. When the Big Horn Wilderness was being created he fought to keep the canyon open as an OHV corridor connecting the desert to the mountains. Also so it would be open for access to the upper end of his ranch.
• He has had two head of cattle and one horse injured by off roaders and the animals had to be killed.
• He is concerned because people are going up the canyons in the wilderness area and that "rock crawlers" were now going up some of the canyons on his ranch.

Billy & Julie were very grateful that there were people willing to help them. They both encouraged me/us to get the word out to drive slowly and watch for cattle. He asked that if we would tell people to stop if a cow is blocking your path and just wait a few minutes they will move on out of the way.

They especially liked the idea of spreading the word via the internet. They also seemed pleased at the idea of setting up a check point on a busy holiday weekend and informing off roaders about the issues with rattlesnake canyon.

At the end of our visit he gave me a tour of his place.


So where to from here?

1. Let's continue to post on other off road websites the issues with Rattlesnake canyon. I know a lot of you belong to other off road sites.

2. Send Sarah any great photos you have of the canyon.

3. Some of you guys guys that are GPS experts please send Sarah a good map of the trail. I've been trying to create one but I'm a dismal failure...

4. Let us all make a promise to ourselves that we will continue to be a shining light to the off road community and lead by example.


In closing Billy & Juile own a 2001 Wrangler and they just love it![/COLOR]

[Mitch]

Roger,

Thank you for taking the time to meet with Billy and Julie.I'm sure that they are very happy to know that they have our support. I still think that a speed limit reminder facing towards north bound traffic as you come out of the wash would be a good reminder. It is easy for me to remember to slow down heading towards his property going from the north end, but with no signs from the other dorection sometimes we forget till we are right there in front of his ranch. Great co-op effort.

Mitch