Trail Discussion: A Trail Discussion...of sorts...

[Mike]

I think that this belongs in the Trail Discussion section, but if a moderator disagrees, please feel free to move it.

Did you know that the marked 'Trails' that we enjoy are considered ROADS by the USFS, BLM, and the law enforcement authorities?

I always knew that a Ranger could site motorized vehicles for a variety of offenses while on US Forest land, but until the AAT meeting tonight, I don't think that I truly realized the extent of the authority that the local Police, and Rangers have.

If the so-called trails that we use are considered actual Roads for enforcement purposes, then a ticket for an open container on the trail could lead to a DUI conviction. Effectively, collisions of vehicles are accidents that could be (and possibly should be) reported.

It gives a whole new perspective to having a brew while cruizing down the 'trail'. I don't drink while off-roading because I don't need any artificial courage on some of the lines that I like to try. I only drink and drive on paved roads! (:oops:It's a JOKE!, don't crucify me.:bonk But I never thought much about others having a beer on the trail until now.

What do you folks think?:dunno:

[OU812]

:sad:And this means that an accident involving alcohol that results in an injury is a felony.

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="Sienna"]It's a good point to bring up. MJR is probably (I've seen this from experience) one of the better groups around about not allowing alcohol on the trail. Don't care about your excuse for wanting or needing a beer on the trail...sounds like you have personal problems if you can't wait until you're back at the campsite.

But what do you do about other people that you find on the trail obviously breaking the law?[/COLOR]

[Mitch]

There is a time and place for that. Mine is at home, not on the trail. Greg made some good points tonight and got people thinking.

Mitch

[TJ Clay]

I usually try and down a 12 pack or so before i hit the trail so i don't have to worry about it getting all shaken up on the trail....................just kidding!

[dirtman13]

Also keep in mind that all the boards are being watched by the public and pictures are posted of our runs they are sometimes downloaded and used as propaganda against us (whether you are following the rules or not).

They are also out on the trails watching and when they see irresponsible off roading they photograph it, document it, and use it against us.

We need to continue to set the example of responsible off roading and remember the actions you take on the trail could affect millions of people that enjoy our deserts and forests.

Thanks for starting this Mike. :thumbs_up

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="Sienna"]
I know you're only joking, but with all the things Greg was talking about last night, it all boils down to our image. Are Clubs, and more specifially Volunteers, putting forth the image of good stewards of the forest, and responsible wheelers? The answer right now is that the one NOT being responsible are drawing a lot of attention.

The question is, how do we fix it? We do not have the authority to detain anyone on the trail until law enforcement officers (LEOs) show up on the scene. Yet, we do need to 'police' our own people.

The only solution I've been able to come up with is peer pressure. And by that, I mean we simply don't wheel with people that refuse to give up their adolecent ways on the trail. Again, MJR is not a typical group, in that 99.99% of the folks on MJR do set a great example for others to follow.

In all of this, people are watching us. People are watching the boards for jackassery*. And they're using this stuff to contact the Forest Supervisor and get our recreation shut down. I was completely ashamed last night when Greg said he'd been called into his boss's office and shown pictures from some AAT group (though not on AAT business) doing some illegal trail riding. Greg was asked, "These are the people you like to work with?" It wasn't MJR people, but still, I'm a part of AAT. Now when the Forest Service sees an AAT shirt or sticker...guess what the first thing that pops into their mind will be?

We just need to clean it up. Nobody is saying we can't have our fun out there, but if your fun MUST include alcohol on the trails, or conducting jackassery* on the trails... seek professional help. Come back when you're all better.

*jackassery in all forms is trademarked and cannot be used without express written consent from the lead jackass.[/COLOR]

[Materdaddy]

[COLOR="Sienna"]
I know you're only joking, but with all the things Greg was talking about last night, it all boils down to our image. Are Clubs, and more specifially Volunteers, putting forth the image of good stewards of the forest, and responsible wheelers? The answer right now is that the one NOT being responsible are drawing a lot of attention.

The question is, how do we fix it? We do not have the authority to detain anyone on the trail until law enforcement officers (LEOs) show up on the scene. Yet, we do need to 'police' our own people.

The only solution I've been able to come up with is peer pressure. And by that, I mean we simply don't wheel with people that refuse to give up their adolecent ways on the trail. Again, MJR is not a typical group, in that 99.99% of the folks on MJR do set a great example for others to follow.

In all of this, people are watching us. People are watching the boards for jackassery*. And they're using this stuff to contact the Forest Supervisor and get our recreation shut down. I was completely ashamed last night when Greg said he'd been called into his boss's office and shown pictures from some AAT group (though not on AAT business) doing some illegal trail riding. Greg was asked, "These are the people you like to work with?" It wasn't MJR people, but still, I'm a part of AAT. Now when the Forest Service sees an AAT shirt or sticker...guess what the first thing that pops into their mind will be?

We just need to clean it up. Nobody is saying we can't have our fun out there, but if your fun MUST include alcohol on the trails, or conducting jackassery* on the trails... seek professional help. Come back when you're all better.

*jackassery in all forms is trademarked and cannot be used without express written consent from the lead jackass.[/COLOR]

Very well said Nick! I've always disliked when people drink on the trail, but I'm never the trail leader. If I was leading a run and somebody wanted to drink, they wouldn't be allowed on my run.

[USMC 0369]

Very well said Nick! I've always disliked when people drink on the trail, but I'm never the trail leader. If I was leading a run and somebody wanted to drink, they wouldn't be allowed on my run.

[COLOR="Sienna"]Mat, you know I enjoy wheeling with you and Tiff, and you're great people...but I don't think that you have to be the trail leader to do something about this. If we all say "Well, nothing I can really do about it, I'm not the trail leader." We're perpetuating the problem.

Here is a promise to everyone: If I see you drinking, being dangerous, or doing something illegal on the trail; I'm going to confront you about it. I'll confront you about it AFTER I've taken a photo of you doing it, which will be sent to whomever can get you banned from the boards...so know that. If I talk to you about it, and you own up to it & correct yourself, I'll mark it up as "old habits die hard." If you make a habit of doing these things until someone confronts you, then you're a habitual offender and I just won't wheel with you. (big loss eh?) I just don't want to be associated with this crap, I'm fed up.

If, when confronted, you get beligerent and start spewing excuses and telling me it's not my business; one of two things will happen:
If I'm the trail leader, you're gonna leave the group. Don't care if I'm abandoning you in the middle of the desert in 130+ degree weather. You abandoned me already by not adhering to the rules. Good luck.
If I'm not the trail leader, you can bet I'm going to let the leadership know. If the trail leader and others tell me it's not my business and that it's okay...then I'll leave your group. Don't care if it's August in Johnson Valley. I always come with plenty of water and I can survive just about anywhere on earth. (never tried Antarctica)

As I said before though, MJR is truly not the problem, in my opinion. It's these other clubs (and we have one here locally in the Hi-Desert) that think the trail system exists because it's their god-given right to be a dumbass when they put the rig in 4-wheel. We can call the SBNF Dispatch, see if we can get a LEO to nail someone being stupid. But if we take pictures and post them, it makes us all look bad. Wish we could take out their tires or something, but can't do that either. (At $200+ per tire, I'd shape up real quick)

What's the solution? CAN the FS confiscate your rig for drinking in SBNF trails? Michigan they can confiscate your rig. Let that happen to a couple of folks... that'll bring stuff to a halt quick.

Now, have I ever done something against the rules? Probably, but not intentionally. And if someone brings it to my attention, I try to make up for it as quickly as I can. If this isn't the truth, someone please call me on it.[/COLOR]

[RAT]

Very well said Nick! I've always disliked when people drink on the trail, but I'm never the trail leader. If I was leading a run and somebody wanted to drink, they wouldn't be allowed on my run.

Mat,
You don't have to be a trail leader to call someone on bad behavior. We should all be leaders in the sense that we are looking for the safest, best methods to do our job. Being safe means a lot of things, and drinking on the trail is one of the worst infractions of safety we see. I am hardliner in that I feel anyone that shows up to an AAT event with alcohol in an open container, or booze breath should be instantly banned from the run and kicked out of the AAT group. But that's me. A kinder approach is to turn them away with the warning that next time they get the axe. And call me a hypocrite for drinking like I do at the fire pit, but that's where I drink; Jeep parked, ignition off, my butt in a chair. On the trail it's totally different. And the fact that the rules apply to our "trails" just as they apply to the highway means there should be no difference in the way we act on the trails.

[tony m]

Exellent points, guys! In our sport and in this community we will always remain under the microscope.
Our best defense is to be an example first.

What Greg had said last night, drinking and driving on the trail, is no different than doing the same on the street or highway. We just need to be a bit more vigil and aware..and also be that example.

[karstic]

Honestly I think a few people need to get popped on the trail with a DUI.

The word will get a round.

[Materdaddy]

Mat,
You don't have to be a trail leader to call someone on bad behavior. We should all be leaders in the sense that we are looking for the safest, best methods to do our job. Being safe means a lot of things, and drinking on the trail is one of the worst infractions of safety we see. I am hardliner in that I feel anyone that shows up to an AAT event with alcohol in an open container, or booze breath should be instantly banned from the run and kicked out of the AAT group. But that's me. A kinder approach is to turn them away with the warning that next time they get the axe. And call me a hypocrite for drinking like I do at the fire pit, but that's where I drink; Jeep parked, ignition off, my butt in a chair. On the trail it's totally different. And the fact that the rules apply to our "trails" just as they apply to the highway means there should be no difference in the way we act on the trails.

Exactly. My point was that most people (myself included) DON'T take action when somebody is doing something stupid. If it were an AAT maintenance day and somebody was drinking, that would definitely be different. I would NOT stand idle for that. I also won't at all anymore.

The fire pit is the place for any boozing, NOT the trail. As has been said multiple times in this thread, if you can't go on a trail run without drinking, you have a problem and need help.

[Dog Man]

I dont care for sodas and I like to have something to drink on the trails so I always bring a six pack of

( NEAR BEER NON ALCOHOLIC )

same taste without the buzz... and you can still drive home safe...
I have a class A license so one beer = DUI for me

[USMC 0369]

I dont care for sodas and I like to have something to drink on the trails so I always bring a six pack of

( NEAR BEER NON ALCOHOLIC )

same taste without the buzz... and you can still drive home safe...

[COLOR="Sienna"]Nice save, but legit. Ya know water is a good option too. Keeps me from having to evac people that have heat exhaustion.

Just a thought.[/COLOR]