A Trail Discussion...of sorts...

[womb raider 940]

Geebo and I only drink when riding the short bus

Can I come Steve? I will bring the cooler!!!!!!!!!

[Dukes69]

What's disheartening is the lack of participation by others in this thread who have feelings regarding zero tolerance that are at least as strong as mine. It's unfortunate that their inate desires to be liked take precedent over their desires to speak up and be heard.

Unfortunately (and fortunately for some of you) I've been away from my computer for 3 days.

I agree with Blaine 100%, and this quote sums it up perfectly:

If you are a responsible off road enthusiast that cares to set the example for others to follow, you don't get to pick and choose which rules are important on any given day. You either follow all of them or none of them.

We are the face of responsibility and drinking on the trail, lunch or otherwise, is NOT responsible. How high strung are you that you can't wait for the camp fire to have a drink. Don't give me the "it's one Beer" line. One beer can't wait? Grow up.

My personal stance is zero tolerance. I've worked too hard to keep these trails open for someone to snap a pic of a guy, with beer in hand, next to a Jeep (yeah, I know lunch, right?) and then it be used against us. You guys who are not behind the scenes may or may not know this: We have had our pictures used against us as fuel for closing trails. You can choose to believe me, or not, but it is my responsibility to my offroad community to ensure this doesn't happen. That includes pulling pics of inappropriate behavior and If I'm on a trail run, telling "that guy" to put it away.

The comparison has been made between having a beer at lunch on the trail and at work(?) while on your lunch break. That is not apples to apples. If they catch enough people driving drunk on the 405 freeway, you can be sure they're not going to close down the freeway. However, if there is a rash of people caught drinking on any forest trail, you can be damn sure closing it is a real posibility.

I have and will wheel with Blaine anytime. Our group wakes up in the morning (not hungover), finds the trail, runs the trail with minimal to no fuss and broken parts and then makes it back to camp. No BS, no parts attrition, no drinking. It's a horrid concept, I know.

[VVjeepfreak]

"You either follow all of them or none of them. Hypocrisy and pregnancy have a lot in common. You either are, or you aren't."

The problem with your messege is that there is no such thing as zero. Do you follow all rules in life? Never gone over the speed limit? Never claimed something on your taxes that was just a tad bit over what you really paid? You drive your jeep on trails that are considered roads, is you Jeep 100% legal to the VC code in CA? Are these things on a diffrent scale than drinking and driving. Yes I think so, but will you excuse all the other things you do that are not 100% legal because you feel its not the same thing.

For the record yes I like to have a beer now and then when I stop for lunch on the trail. When I joined MJR and read that no drinking while on the trail was one of the rules I chose to respect that. As most have stated This doesn't seem to be a problem with MJR's as all respect the rules. I've found over the years that if you had someone that had to drink while on the trail, that they don't like to be around non-drinkers and usually do not return with the group. I like wheeling with the poeple that I have met from here and will keep following the rules while having a good time.

[RAT]

I'm about done with this, but before I go, an observation is in order.

What's disheartening is the lack of participation by others in this thread who have feelings regarding zero tolerance that are at least as strong as mine. It's unfortunate that their inate desires to be liked take precedent over their desires to speak up and be heard.

I've learned over the years that all this BS on the treads is just that: BS. When you see me on the trail, let's have a talk. I'll tell you exactly how I feel about all of this. This invitation is open to all of you that read this thread...

[avjeepfreek]

You know, it has always my impression that one of the main reasons for this message board/site is to promote 4 wheeling and get people out on the trail and have fun! To enjoy a sport that in my opinion is without comparison but it appears to me that this “THREAD” does not support those ideas at all!

There is one thing I do agree on and that is that the AAT is for working on the trails and not for drinking on the trails!

But, apparently some have decided to elect themselves the "moral police" and take it upon themselves to assert their views and opinions on the so called masses that in their opinion are breaking laws or otherwise doing something immoral by having a beer or two while out on the normal trail rides. Come on, you know you’ve all done something that bends or even breaks the rules on occasion and if you haven’t then I guess we are in the company of Saints!

And those so called Saints are quick to point a finger and stand in judgment to throw the first stone, I ask, who are they to say that one beer at lunch will lead to 12 more during the ride! Or because someone stood idly by and watched another throw trash on the ground in our National Forest or desert trails and said nothing to the offender, That, that somehow means they condone that type of behavior. For those that say that the picture of the guy standing next to a Jeep out on the trail with a beer in his hand will lead to it’s closure, who’s to say that that guy didn’t just pick up an empty beer can and was getting ready to throw it away!

Lest we forget that it is our responsibility to police ourselves out on the trail, not the masses. All you can hope to do is to lead by example in the hopes that others might follow you.

If you chose to refrain from drinking on the trail it's your choice! Further, if you choose to refrain from riding with others that drink while out on the trail, it's again your choice! The same goes for trash throwers, firearms totters, leavers of oil on the ground left behind after that trail repair or hell, anything else for that matter! But, don’t impose your threats on people or somehow imply that they have a problem because they enjoy a beer at lunch on the trail! You have no right to police them! Let them police themselves!

Personally it makes no difference to me if you chose to drink on the trail or not. I’ve had a beer at lunch out on the trail a time or two! Is that cause to judge me and say I have a drinking problem? Or to say that, I can’t go Wheeling with out a beer? I don’t think so!
I’ve gone out on plenty of trail rides with no beer in the cooler!

It’s called commonsense for a reason people! Don’t get me wrong, I’m well aware that some people don’t have the commonsense God gave a rock! So, I’d say that if your faced with a situation where you feel your in danger, that in dangers the ones your with or the sport of 4 Wheeling, then I guess you’d be obligated to say something, just as I would!

The bottom line is that all I can see that this thread will accomplish is a lot more of this site's members will probably be setting up trail rides via "PM" rather than posting them for the enjoyment of everyone else for fear of retribution for cracking a cold one out on the trail during lunch or the possibility of a cooler check prior to a run!

Sounds a lot like BIG BROTHER to me!

[JeepGal]

Let me sum this up for everyone.

At this point, you can tell who tolerates what. Choose to wheel with them or dont.

Some food for thought, and this brings us around to the first post of this thread- What is considered illegal on the highway is also considered illegal on the trail.

This includes driving around with the open container in your vehicle of the beer that you just enjoyed at lunch. Is it really worth the possible open container and DIU? Think of everything you worked so hard for!

Please dont feel the need to wheel with me if you cant control your alcohol consumption.

I too, enjoy wheeling with Blaine, as I know what to expect. Less drama, breakage, being a good example to the community and no one breaking the law. We dont worry about who takes pictures of us doing anything, as we are proud of our actions. This holds true to most of the folks I wheel with.

Choose to wheel with me or not, Im not after your friendship here, Im after your respect.

One more thing...You may or may not agree with Blaine or anyone here that holds a strong opinion regarding intolerance on this subject. Many of these folks have seen a life lost on the trail due to alcohol. Lets hope you never do.

Tam

[NAILER341]

I too am for the Zero tolerance ideals for wheeling on the trails.

like Chris i haven't been on the computer much in the past couple of days. i'm sick as a dog right now, but i'll get it out there and hope it makes sense.

it has been said many times both by blaine and the others that that prefer to follow the law that they dont like to be on the trail with those whom are drinking.

the only people disagreeing with the comments made by blaine, chris, tam, nick, etc... are those that like to have their drinks on the trail.

the bottom line is they know it is wrong in the eyes of the law, and they know the majority of them fit into the "wont only have one while on lunch and not driving the jeep" category, but prefer to use that as a justification of their actions.

there are those that will only have one with lunch because they just love the flavor of the colt45 running down the back of their throat. those are in the minority.

it becomes the job or moral responsibility of the trail leader to discern which is the drunk that has pounded a six pack before stopping for the "one beer at lunch". some trail leaders take this shit seriously.

cant you see now how it would be much easier to just not bring a damn beer (or 10) on the trail runs so no one has to be subjected to the moral responsibility of having to tell you that this is a run they are leading and drinking is not allowed on it for the safety of everyone around you?

as far as the AAT stuff goes, there is no question that there is a ZERO tolerance there. not that i have been particularly active in it for a bit, but i do still represent it. if you feel the need to have a beer on one of those runs stay at home and save yourself the embarrassment of being escorted across the gate.

i'm sure if there isn't an iron clad rule within the MJR AAT deal specifying a zero tolerance for alcohol on those runs there will be.

to be up front about all of this, i happen not to drink at all. (any more) this however doesn't make judgmental of those that do drink responsibly. hell, i don't care if you get falling down drunk back at camp and shit your pants in front of everyone. i would likely leave you to wallow in your mire, but i'd be laughing at you the whole time.

the minute you are out on the trail and representing something larger than yourself, you have to man up, and be responsible for your actions, and restrict the actions for the benefit of those around you and what you are representing.

now i'm going back to bed. i'll read this in a bit and see if it makes sense or not. either way, it is out there.

by the way, i wheel with blaine, and many others on this board, and will continue to do so. the "being a responsible participant" is not a difficult thing to do.

[TJ Clay]

Wow! 8 pages and counting, must be a slow day on the trails. Seems to me there is alot of people that want to be in control. Fact is the law is driving while intoxicated, not having a drink while at lunch or on a break. Seems to me that someone that tries to stop someone from that is themselves breaking the law. I just hope they are all obeying the law in all aspects, and we don't start getting cited for tires that extend beyond our flares, no 3rd brake light, a firearm under our seat, airbags disconnected, the list can go on and on. I've had a beer before while at lunch and i've witnessed many other MJR members doing the same. I really can't believe i just wasted 10 minutes of my life on this.

[NAILER341]

it seems some still read through this stuff and extrapolate what they want from it and leave the rest.

[flatpoint]

Jeep Gal, since you have figured out who "we" are....and "they" are, it would really help me, and others I'm sure, if you could make a "list" of who is who....it would help me greatly in figuring out who I should wheel with....and would it be "OK" sometimes to cross over, and respect "them" and their "rules".....or "ways"?

[womb raider 940]

I still like MJR and will continue what I do.

I respect everyone here as well as on the trail. I just have different opinions and so forth.

But in the end we are all pretty much the same.

And yes it seems not many of us hit the trails this weekend. I am bummed about that.

[Mitch]

Wow,

Pissin and whining and I've run 3 days in a row and it's still going on! Way too bad. Nick careful of the picture, Duke69 pulled one of mine as TERRORIZING THE INTERNET! Haaaa.... I might have to go out again tomorrow and just have fun enjoying the trails. Might have a cold one at lunch if there's anything left after tonight!

Reminds me of an Eagles song "GET OVER IT", oh you have already heard that and it didn't work. Those of you who still can, have a nice day.

Mitch

[Mitch]

Sarah,

Thank you for the reminder. ATT is for work and is not a party time. Zero tolorance, when working with Rangers on Jeep club sponsored events. Good place to leave this.

Mitch

[Materdaddy]

Unfortunately (and fortunately for some of you) I've been away from my computer for 3 days.

I agree with Blaine 100%, and this quote sums it up perfectly:



We are the face of responsibility and drinking on the trail, lunch or otherwise, is NOT responsible. How high strung are you that you can't wait for the camp fire to have a drink. Don't give me the "it's one Beer" line. One beer can't wait? Grow up.

My personal stance is zero tolerance. I've worked too hard to keep these trails open for someone to snap a pic of a guy, with beer in hand, next to a Jeep (yeah, I know lunch, right?) and then it be used against us. You guys who are not behind the scenes may or may not know this: We have had our pictures used against us as fuel for closing trails. You can choose to believe me, or not, but it is my responsibility to my offroad community to ensure this doesn't happen. That includes pulling pics of inappropriate behavior and If I'm on a trail run, telling "that guy" to put it away.

The comparison has been made between having a beer at lunch on the trail and at work(?) while on your lunch break. That is not apples to apples. If they catch enough people driving drunk on the 405 freeway, you can be sure they're not going to close down the freeway. However, if there is a rash of people caught drinking on any forest trail, you can be damn sure closing it is a real posibility.

I have and will wheel with Blaine anytime. Our group wakes up in the morning (not hungover), finds the trail, runs the trail with minimal to no fuss and broken parts and then makes it back to camp. No BS, no parts attrition, no drinking. It's a horrid concept, I know.

Very well said Chris.

I also didn't leave the thread because I want to be "liked" or anything, I have plenty of friends. I was out this weekend and haven't been near a computer.

That being said, I posted that I was done with this thread as I felt there wasn't much else to be discussed and anything else would just lead to name-calling or flared tempers which doesn't get anybody anywhere.

I'd also like to give a big :thumbs_up to MrBash. Very nice post, well said.

[Geebo]

I say we all take a drink!! and end this thread!!but that drinkie poo has got to be in the short bus!!