A Trail Discussion...of sorts...

[mrblaine]

The only problem I see is your zero tolerance attitude.

Why, because I choose to follow all the rules and not the ones I feel are important on any given day?

I have zero tolerance for burning pallets, glass containers, harassing or bothering wildlife, off trail damage, trail trash, trail mess from repairs, stupidity in general, drinking and driving, and any other act that portrays us in a bad light as recreational off road enthusiasts.

If you are a responsible off road enthusiast that cares to set the example for others to follow, you don't get to pick and choose which rules are important on any given day. You either follow all of them or none of them. Hypocrisy and pregnancy have a lot in common. You either are, or you aren't.

[mrblaine]

The only problem I see is your zero tolerance attitude.

So why aren't you on Tomb Raider's ass over his zero tolerance regarding trail trash?

[womb raider 940]

So why aren't you on Tomb Raider's ass over his zero tolerance regarding trail trash?

I dont throw trash on the trail. Never have never will. Did I mistype something maybe.

Have you seen me do it?

If you have ever wheeled with me I am pretty mellow, I dont throw trash out, dont drink and drive, and respect everyone and everything around me. Their views or beliefs I respect I dont go out of my way to make something of it.

[Schmo]

Why, because I choose to follow all the rules and not the ones I feel are important on any given day?

I have zero tolerance for burning pallets, glass containers, harassing or bothering wildlife, off trail damage, trail trash, trail mess from repairs, stupidity in general, drinking and driving, and any other act that portrays us in a bad light as recreational off road enthusiasts.

If you are a responsible off road enthusiast that cares to set the example for others to follow, you don't get to pick and choose which rules are important on any given day. You either follow all of them or none of them. Hypocrisy and pregnancy have a lot in common. You either are, or you aren't.

Take a look at DJ's comment that and your response to it. This is the response and topic I was addressing.

Originally Posted by Desert Jewel
Majority of the MJR members choose to not drink alcoholic beverages on these runs and are able to refrain from it. If the trail leader chooses not to have alcoholic beverages on the run, then don't sign up for it.

Therein lies the problem. You should have said that NO MJR members choose to drink on these runs and know that to be true with a moral certainty.

Perhaps you were mistaken when using the word drink instead of drunk :dunno: Having a couple of beers at lunch or while standing around watching others attempt and obstacle is not a problem nor is it illegal, as long as you are under the legal B/A limit when you hop back in your Jeep. All the other topics you mentioned have nothing to do with what I was saying or what's being discussed in this thread.

[mrblaine]

I dont throw trash on the trail. Never have never will. Did I mistype something maybe.

You didn't mis-type anything. In fact you were quite clear about your zero tolerance concerning trash-

How much trash is allowed to exit my vehicle and hit the ground before you say something?
A BIG FAT ZERO. i DO NOT LIKE TRASH ON THE GROUND. WHETHER IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD OR ON THE TRAIL

My question is why are you allowed to exhibit zero tolerance with no grief, yet I'm taken to task over the same thing?

[mrblaine]

Take a look at DJ's comment that and your responce to it. This is the response and topic I was addressing.





Perhaps you were mistaken when using the word drink instead of drunk :dunno: Having a couple of beers at lunch or while standing around watching others attempt and obstacle is not a problem nor is it illegal.

You still keep missing the point. I have no expectation that you will stop drinking just as I have no expectation that you will stop throwing trash on the ground.

[womb raider 940]

You still keep missing the point. I have no expectation that you will stop drinking just as I have no expectation that you will stop throwing trash on the ground.

I will not stop drinking.

And per you I will keep throwing trash on the....wait hold on I just threw another piece of trash on the ground.

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="Sienna"]I'm done with this thread. I've expressed my position on the subject, no amount of "mind your own business" is going to change it. If I'm on the trail, it is my business. I'm a zero tolerance kinda guy. Oddly, I had a great time wheeling with friends this weekend. So there are SOME that will wheel with me.

I've read what has been posted. I have changed my position on one thing, instead of just engaging whomever is drinking with the problem, I'll just call the LEOs, less drama for me, and apparently nothing I can say will get them to stop their habit. Then the offender can give their excuses to the cop. Explain to them how THIS portion of the California Vehicle Code does not apply to them. Please note this, ...while driving a motor vehicle upon a highway or on lands, as described in subdivision (b) of Section 23220... Section 23220 subdivision (b) states: ... "lands" means those lands to which the Chappie-Z’berg Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Law of 1971 (Division 16.5 (commencing with Section 38000)) applies...

All of this drama because someone simply cannot wait to get off the trail to have a beer is rediculous. Expect this thread to be closed soon if the name-calling, and character bashing continues. If we cannot have a civil conversation about something, then there is no point to discuss it.

Flatpoint did have a point, people in the desert are sketchy... I've lived here for 16+ years, I know all about them. But devil dog, you shouldn't assume I would walk into a situation unprepared.

My wife's got my back...
[/COLOR]

[Schmo]

My question is why are you allowed to exhibit zero tolerance with no grief, yet I'm taken to task over the same thing?

These are not the same thing . . . we all agree that throwing any amount of trash onto the trail is a problem and illegal.

You on the other hand are being taken to task for your zero tolerance stance on any drinking whatsoever on the trail. Whereas many here along with the law agree, that a beer or two while at lunch is perfectly acceptable, you choose to take a different stance and therefore your zero tolerance policy is applying to an activity that many consider perfectly acceptable.

[flatpoint]

Semper Fi...Hell,I'll even wheel with you.

[mrblaine]

These are not the same thing . . . we all agree that throwing any amount of trash onto the trail is a problem and illegal.

They are not the same to you because you condone one and not the other.

You on the other hand are being taken to task for your zero tolerance stance on any drinking whatsoever on the trail. Whereas many here along with the law agree, that a beer or two while at lunch is perfectly acceptable, you choose to take a different stance and therefore your zero tolerance policy is applying to an activity that many consider perfectly acceptable.

Thank you. My entire point in this whole thing is that folks will apply situational ethics in a hypocritical fashion in order to not fall out of favor with their drinking brethren and only because you are out of public view.

Not one of you condoning drinking and driving on the trail would run down to your local supermarket and stand around with a beer in your hand in the parking lot and not try to hide it.

[SAR Jeeper]

Geebo and I only drink when riding the short bus

[mrblaine]

I'm about done with this, but before I go, an observation is in order.

What's disheartening is the lack of participation by others in this thread who have feelings regarding zero tolerance that are at least as strong as mine. It's unfortunate that their inate desires to be liked take precedent over their desires to speak up and be heard.

It's also precisely the reason why drinking on the trail will be tolerated.

This isn't the first time, but it is most assuredly the last.

[peteyg]

Who gets to be in charge of making sure it's only one at lunch?

I do. I get to be in charge of me. I neither want or need you to babysit me, no matter what YOU might think. It's MY responsibility, not yours. I didn't ask you to be responsible for me, so don't assume to be.

If you have the need to be in charge, then find a bunch of people who feel that they need someone to be in charge. I am not one of those sheeple.

All of the people I wheel with are adults, and conduct themselves as such, and, being adults, I assume that they can be responsible for themselves without me needing to interfere with or police them. If I wind up wheeling with someone whom I feel cannot be a responsible adult, I exercise my choice to not wheel or camp with them again. That's as far as I think I need to take it.

From everything I can see, you choose to take responsibility for everyone you are around, and to impose your moral compass on anyone with whom you would choose to associate with. That is your prerogative, and I would not assume to try to tell you that you need to do it differently. Please do me the same favor. You can be assured that we will never find ourselves wheeling together in the same group, so you will not find the need to feel like you have to be responsible for me.

[flatpoint]

Aaaaaaaaaamen!!!!!!!