ACTION ALERT: Doran Dr./ Oddessa Cyn Gate Keeper bypass closed off

[mrblaine]

I agree it seams that his goal is to point out that he feels smarter than everyone and wants to pick apart statements and play word games.

I'm not smarter than anybody. If you can't defend your statements and logic to me, one that has exactly zero control or influence over your beloved bypass, then how do you plan on presenting yourself to those that do?

There are a lot of folks that read boards besides those that are registered.

If the best arguement you can come up with is "because that's the way it's always been", then don't bother making the drive to the meeting.

They'll stand there and shoot down every sentiment with a factual presentation that you have no contingency for and no answer to.

[JeepGal]

Time out everyone.

The reality of all of this is that the closure and bypass are on Regional Park Land, and we dont have a legal leg to stand on if they dont accept our help.

We need to remember to stick to the facts and keep our emotions out of this.

Blaine's comments were not said in anger, there is no emotion in them. Please do not read into our conversation. His comments are truly preparing me I need to remain unemotional and factual.

Im very happy everyone is as involved in this subject. We need to use some of this energy and awareness to help fight other land use battles like Johnson Valley. On that note, if you havent yet signed the petition to save Johnson Valley, PLEASE DO SO!

Tam

[Schmo]

This notice is to everyone

I am done listening to negativity on this thread. If you can not add to this conversation with something constructive, abstain from posting. If you choose to post something negative, your post will be removed and you may get banned.

Tam

We need to remember to stick to the facts and keep our emotions out of this.

Blaine's comments were not said in anger, there is no emotion in them. Please do not read into our conversation. His comments are truly preparing me I need to remain unemotional and factual.

Im very happy everyone is as involved in this subject. We need to use some of this energy and awareness to help fight other land use battles like Johnson Valley.

:dunno:

[mrblaine]

:dunno:

What, you think I'm being negative because I'm not patting you on the butt and commenting on how nicely you have all your ducks in a row?

You need to learn the difference between negativity and realistic.

Read Tam's post carefully with some comprehension of the ramifications and set your emotions and sentiment aside for a moment.

There is a risk here that the BLM could be or eventually get fed up with complaints from the Regional Park and the folks that run Calico.

Rather than working with them and us to find a compromise that meets the needs of both interested parties, they could just as easily restrict access because they are tired of dealing with it.

If you plan on trying to mitigate a set of circumstances to your benefit, you need to have your facts in order, be aware of what the other interested parties motivations and, and be able to operate from a defensible position other than "it's always been that way".

My point in all of this after reading 10 plus pages filled generally with emotional drivel and few facts, is that if you plan on undertaking this endeavor, get your facts in order and plan for an outcome you may not have considered.

In order to do that you have to assign values to certain options in order to know which ones you are willing to compromise on in order to best achieve your goal.

In descending order with the highest first, based on the answers to the questions I've asked, it appears the number one goal is to keep Doran open.

The second priority is to keep the bypass open and viable.

The third priority is to efficiently restrict access in and out of the campground via unauthorized routes commonly used by offroaders.

Here is the only criteria that matters-

What property is the barricade on?

What property is the bypass on?

What property is the actual trail on?

Is the bypass part of the actual trail?

Will closing the bypass benefit anyone?

Do the folks that control the property that the bypass is on have the right determine it's existence?

What is/are the reason(s)for the bypass?

So far, the only reason I've seen tossed out is that the Gatekeeper needs to be kept the way it is for the "Hardcore" rigs. If you don't evaluate that answer very honestly, then you are in a very indefensible position.

The BLM could very easily look you straight in the eye and tell you that there is a very large area right over by the Marine Base at 29 Palms that has all the hardcore you can stand.

You need to balance the value of the rest of the trail against one obstacle that is so far out of whack in difficulty that it's anomalous and consider it's worth comparatively.

Now, take the emotion out of it and deal with the facts.

[karstic]

In descending order with the highest first, based on the answers to the questions I've asked, it appears the number one goal is to keep Doran open.

The second priority is to keep the bypass open and viable.

The third priority is to efficiently restrict access in and out of the campground via unauthorized routes commonly used by offroaders.

I would switch your number one and two priorities. Doran would be open whether or not the bypass is open or closed. I have gathered that MJR wants to keep the bypass open so that Doran/Odessa can be ran as a loop trail versus an out and back trail.

I believe the priority of Regional Parks (based on personal experience with Regional Parks outside of this latest issue) is to cease the 4wd and OHV traffic between the campground and the bypass.

[RAT]

The BLM could very easily look you straight in the eye and tell you that there is a very large area right over by the Marine Base at 29 Palms that has all the hardcore you can stand.

.

I want to stay out of this for the most part because too many cooks...

I agree with Blaine on this- what exactly are you willing to take as a compromise for the Gatekeeper if the BLM decides to put the kiebash on the whole bypass issue and shut it down? Are you willing to level Gatekeeper to the point that "lesser" rigs can use it? I know we're all gung-ho and ready to throw strong backs into the labor side of this, but as Blains says, be ready when the parties concerned come back at you with something you might not want to hear.
Thanks Blaine for bringing in a non-emotional view of this.

[mrblaine]

I would switch your number one and two priorities. Doran would be open whether or not the bypass is open or closed. I have gathered that MJR wants to keep the bypass open so that Doran/Odessa can be ran as a loop trail versus an out and back trail.

I believe the priority of Regional Parks (based on personal experience with Regional Parks outside of this latest issue) is to cease the 4wd and OHV traffic between the campground and the bypass.

No I wouldn't switch those priorities or even consider it. Doran is the trail, everything else is secondary. Just because a large contingent of folks have been using a bypass to the actual trail, does not make that bypass acceptable to all parties concerned. It only makes it desireable to offroaders incapable of running the actual trail and removes a bit of the entertainment value from watching folks flail around in their attempts at Gatekeeper.

Remember that honest evaluation I spoke of?

[Schmo]

Mr. Blaine . . . my post was not directed at you!

Perhaps I was trying to be too subtle . . . I’m all for an open discussion to get to the bottom of why the actions were taken and what we can do to better the situation. This is an emotional topic for many on this board who view this blockade as something being taken away and it’s those same emotions that will inspire them to support the cause, volunteer time, etc. I welcome both positive and negative comments as both are generally needed to see the different angles and to come up with reasonable and realistic solutions. I do not feel that threats of being BANNED, fosters open communication or will help us gain the support that we need.

[karstic]

No I wouldn't switch those priorities or even consider it. Doran is the trail, everything else is secondary. Just because a large contingent of folks have been using a bypass to the actual trail, does not make that bypass acceptable to all parties concerned. It only makes it desireable to offroaders incapable of running the actual trail and removes a bit of the entertainment value from watching folks flail around in their attempts at Gatekeeper.

Remember that honest evaluation I spoke of?

Maybe I should have asked, "Whose priority?"

Each interested party, County Parks, BLM, MJR has a different set of priorities

County parks has to prioritze based on maintenance costs and liability issues of people traveling between/through the campground and the bypass.

BLM has to prioritize based upon liability issues and resource issues.

The off-road community has the issue of trail access and utility as a priority.

The issue is clouded because the bypass, and it appears portions of the entrance to Doran Canyon, stradle the BLM/County Parks boundary. Add to that previous use of the bypass, previous attempts to close the bypass, current attempts by County Parks at signage restricting useage, etc.

Remember that honest evaluation I spoke of?

Clearly, the off-road community may just have to realize, even though "We've been doing it that way for years." It may have not been legal or correct.

[womb raider 940]

Mr. Blaine . . . my post was not directed at you!

Perhaps I was trying to be too subtle . . . I’m all for an open discussion to get to the bottom of why the actions were taken and what we can do to better the situation. This is an emotional topic for many on this board who view this blockade as something being taken away and it’s those same emotions that will inspire them to support the cause, volunteer time, etc. I welcome both positive and negative comments as both are generally needed to see the different angles and to come up with reasonable and realistic solutions. I do not feel that threats of being BANNED, fosters open communication or will help us gain the support that we need.

HOOAH!!

[4point]

Its an odd way to agree with me. (preaching to the choir)

I wont need to police thousands of OHV users because we intend on coming up with a reasonable resolution that we can all adhere to.

This notice is to everyone

I am done listening to negativity on this thread. If you can not add to this conversation with something constructive, abstain from posting. If you choose to post something negative, your post will be removed [COLOR="Red"]and you may get banned[/COLOR].

Tam

I appreciate your tenacity and hard work, but threatening a ban?

[JeepGal]

Regarding the Banning comment.

There were a few members that were posting comments that encouraged breaking the law, and going around the barriers. There were also some comments that regardless of the resolution, they wouldnt adhere to it. These posts have been deleted, and the members notified.

I refuse to condone illegal behavior on this board. That was the kind of negative behavior I was referring to.

The discussions regarding realistic expectations and knowing our options is awesome.

Tam

[mrblaine]

Mr. Blaine . . . my post was not directed at you!

Perhaps I was trying to be too subtle . . . I’m all for an open discussion to get to the bottom of why the actions were taken and what we can do to better the situation. This is an emotional topic for many on this board who view this blockade as something being taken away and it’s those same emotions that will inspire them to support the cause, volunteer time, etc. I welcome both positive and negative comments as both are generally needed to see the different angles and to come up with reasonable and realistic solutions. I do not feel that threats of being BANNED, fosters open communication or will help us gain the support that we need.

I've expressed my feelings on the matter privately to those concerned.

I disagree with the threat of banning only because it gives those of us that care, a mechanism to deal with those against us and keeps us sharper in the long run. It also shows outsiders that we are capable of defending ourselves with substantive arguments and why we follow the rules and our abiding by them lends a certain credibility when we need it.

[Shadly1]

Forgive me for not properly participating in the creative verbal sparring. My goal is to drive Doran with my Jeep. The only thing keeping me from participating in "illegal activities" is respect for the group. Maybe a thread should be created for the people who would like to open this trail and another one created for the people who would like to ponder all the what-if's.

I WILL help open the bypass if we get the go-ahead. I WILL NOT help make Gatekeeper passable to lesser vehicles even if I fit in that category.

[mrblaine]

Forgive me for not properly participating in the creative verbal sparring. My goal is to drive Doran with my Jeep. The only thing keeping me from participating in "illegal activities" is respect for the group. Maybe a thread should be created for the people who would like to open this trail and another one created for the people who would like to ponder all the what-if's.

I WILL help open the bypass if we get the go-ahead. I WILL NOT help make Gatekeeper passable to lesser vehicles even if I fit in that category.

I'd urge you to reconsider.