Cleghorn

[blackZZR]

I went up Today and was amazed that most of the closed bypasses already have bypasses burnt in that are ways around the blocking rocks and debris. I guess some guys do not get the message, or could just care less, I figure in about a month those closed trails are going have new entrances so burnt in it will look like they were never closed.
I wonder if this will effect keeping the trail open?

[troyboy162]

crap i bet they close the gates

[OU812]

I was up there at about 8:30am today and saw the same. Most of the rocks did their job but there were plenty of tracks thru the bushes. In these closures I appreciate the effort to use natural blocks like rocks and brush. It's not very nice looking when every 50 yards you see a sign saying closed trail. I hope they don't close the whole thing because these 10%ers have found another outlet the give us a bad name.

[blackZZR]

I stopped one guy when he was getting off one of the trails and asked if he knew the trail was closed, He said yes, now he had his wife and kids in the 4 runner, So I asked if he was just trying to teach his kids it was ok to break the law if it was fun to do so. Boy did he hit the roof but his wife started to bitch at him. I told him that his actions were the type that gpt trails closed, He seemed mad that someone was trying to stop him from having his fun. Oh well I think we are up against a extremely upward clmb to keep trails open.
Now my wife asked me why the closed them off and I told her that they wanted only so many of them there and pointed out about 7 of them I have seen burnt in during the last 4 years. She understood when I did that, I think maybe that it may be an approach in explaining it to some of these guys.
I know that it is hard to get people to give up what they think they own. But without compliance we will lose the trail all together. I also know that I get 23,000 hits a month now on WWW.JustGoodTrails.com/waiting most of them visiting 5 pages or more in the forum so I know pwople are reading, about the issues, I just wonder what it is going to take to get them to start to do something BEFORE a trail is closed, not after.

[blackZZR]

I am wondering if we could get 10 jeeps and split up into 5 pairs, position ourselves at 5 of those closed trails and each group have Tread Lightly brochures, Pass them out and explain why we must stay off those closed trails? Do this for 4 hours once or twice a month if we would have an impact? I think it would be worth the effort and show the Forest Service we are serious about keeping trails open, we could challenge other clubs to join us doing weekends we are not there.

[curtis]

If you have signs every 50 yds I don't think handing out brochures would do any good. People who go through or around trail blocks just don't care,just like the guy you talked to Jim. People are just not held accountable any more.

Keeping trails open is all about money,and the tree huggers have lots of it and give it to the politicians and lawyers.

All the politicians could care less about offroaders, they think we are a bunch of pagan pigs.(ten steps below Nascar people).

I give money to a few OHV groups and do I think they do any good? Keeping trails open(not really). Helping to clean up and maintain them(definitely yes).

I also think the FS does what the politicians tell them to. After all it is a govnment agency.

[aw12345]

Curtis that is pretty much how I feel. The OHV volunteers and offroad clubs and such provide free slave labor to clean and maintain trails and as a thank you the forest service closes them. On the flip side if they jeep that up there is not a whole lot of need for forest rangers either so they might want to think about their job security.

[curtis]

Art the forest rangers I have met have all been very nice people. So I don't blame them. But I do blame the politicians,(state and US government).Like the saying goes(Don't shoot the messenger).

[blackZZR]

I think the politicians and the current administration showed their true colors with the oil spill in the gulf. There was no mass deployment of resources to contain, or stop the spill. Instead they held a few hearings.
In other words they are huge to pass laws and regulations so they can collect the money from the green lobbyist, but very slow to actually do something. I feel they showed this to every single American this last month. You cannot tell me it would have taken more than just a word from Obama to have the resources of our navy down there and to have supplies delivered from vendors to contain and clean up that spill. Instead we have the biggest environmental disaster in the history of mankind going on and all he is interested in doing is to point fingers and show why we cannot drill offshore. Had his administration enforced regulations and not allowed a substandard well to be drilled in a high pressure strata this would not have happened. Unfortunately they are turning it around and blaming everything on BP.
Action is what was needed,
and action is what is needed on Cleghorn, but once again these words will fall on deaf words as it seems very few of the Wheeling crowd is actually interested in doing something about the situation. Instead they will think of every excuse not to take action.
I pity the world we leave our children, one of no freedoms and regulations enacted by lobbyist just because their parents were to lazy to do something.
the difference between the green side and ours is they are not afraid to do something, our side is pathetic.

[curtis]

Jim I agree with you on the oil thing. We should be drilling in alaska and other not so risky places. And that is because of of the green lobbyist.

But to say we are lazy and pathetic is wrong. As a hole we are not a rich group, so we do not have the backing that the greenies do or the numbers. Most of them wouldn't even go to the mountains or desert. they just think it's there 15 minutes of fame to save the world. It's like the people that believe Al Gore. If you have a enougth money on your side you can make most people believe any thing. And there is not much of a chance we will ever have that much.

[blackZZR]

We do have the numbers, what we lack is the will
How many would join me for 1 day of education on Cleghorn?

Jim I agree with you on the oil thing. We should be drilling in alaska and other not so risky places. And that is because of of the green lobbyist.

But to say we are lazy and pathetic is wrong. As a hole we are not a rich group, so we do not have the backing that the greenies do or the numbers. Most of them wouldn't even go to the mountains or desert. they just think it's there 15 minutes of fame to save the world. It's like the people that believe Al Gore. If you have a enougth money on your side you can make most people believe any thing. And there is not much of a chance we will ever have that much.

[blackZZR]

Prove me wrong
Satuday June 12th, 9 am meet me at the 15 and Cleghorn, we will go up and position ourselves by some of the block offs. If someone wants to take it we ask them please not to, hand them a tread lighly brochere and a flyer explainig how their actions can have the entire trail shutdown. Tell them thankyou and have a good day. We allow them to do as they please and do the bypass if they want. We do not argue, only educate, I will buy ll supplies to be passed out.

How many will join me?

[Nipple Twister]

Might wanna rethink the "Brochure".....

......idea, next thing you know is they'll close the trail because of all the "brochures" left all over the forest........:2:
And for us all being lazy, not a "warm and fuzzy" approuch either. Between Little League, NRA Meetings, City/Community meeting, Girl/Boy Scout fund raisers, Emergency Communications meeting/events, ...etc, etc......bla, bla , bla , bla.....endless list of "hey, all I need is a few hours or your time/help" kinda things. And oh yeah, we have jobs too!
We all feel your fustrations as well... plain math.....50lbs of s__t (work) with a 10lb scoop (us).

So when we find we might have a "spare" four hours or whatever and we wanna go wheelin......finding time to plug all the gaps gets tough........

So when you feel that strongly about something, go ahead, throw down and get after it. It will be a demanding, frustrating, emotional, nasty, bugger of a job but just suck it up, move forward and say "hey, I'm gonna do this, will ya help me?.Some will, some won't but as I stated YOU WILL NOT GET ENOUGH HELP, TIME, or MONEY. Wave the flag, do what ya feel is right and they hear you enough and get lucky and pull it off just be careful as to where you point that finger, don't wanna hear "well, if I had more help like me I would have prevented this" if it get s closed..........

[RAT]

Prove me wrong
Satuday June 12th, 9 am meet me at the 15 and Cleghorn, we will go up and position ourselves by some of the block offs. If someone wants to take it we ask them please not to, hand them a tread lighly brochere and a flyer explainig how their actions can have the entire trail shutdown. Tell them thankyou and have a good day. We allow them to do as they please and do the bypass if they want. We do not argue, only educate, I will buy ll supplies to be passed out.

How many will join me?

A suggestion: Get with the clubs that take care of Cleghorn. They should be at the front of the pack trying to protect what they have done. And if I'm not mistaken, there is already an OHV deal going on on Cleghorn road this weekend. Unfortunately my support will be very slim until I get this build done. But there are still plenty of people to join the ranks. I hate to say it, but I have to agree with two previous points that were made. First, handing out brochures to folks that already don't give a damn is going to create a trash problem up there. Second, Your going to get a LOT of resistance to any mention of the words "closed trails". If you work in sales, you know that you get shot down 99 times before you make a sale. Don't get discouraged when your words fall on deaf ears. Just keep plugging on.

Good luck.

[nwoods]

I'm of mixed opinion on your suggestion.
1. It needs to be corrdinated with SBNF. We have not been deputized, and they actually may object to citizen enforcement. I can think of a few good reasons why.

2. I agree we need to stop and educate the yahoos, but....

3. I reject what the SBNF has done here, I do not support it. I have a hard time telling others not to do what I very
uch want to do my own self.

4. It's my sons birthday that day, I am schedule blocked.