Cleghorn

[mkjeepers]

WOW I saw stuff I did not want to be associated with, like guys reaching into vehicles and looking at stuff in them. guys representing themselves [COLOR="Blue"]like cops[/COLOR], guys using it as an excuse to go places others could not. I decided to just move on.

[COLOR="blue"]I think this is one of the major issues in this ongoing discussion. It is very disturbing when I see FS "VOLUNTEERS" acting like a "police state" official. This is not only irratating, but develops a lot of disgruntled citizens who just want to enjoy the National Forest.

My contact with staffed full time FS officials has been 99+ percent positive in the past. They have been very considerate and helpful.[/COLOR]

[Beatrice]

I see you're online right now. So you decided not to go? I was going to see if anyone was there when I pass through on my way back from Las Vegas this afternoon.

I think the call is for next week

[JeepGal]

We lost the illegal bypaases so we could keep the trail.

Now, if everyone goes around the barriers, we could lose the trail.

Your time to make public comments ended about a year ago. You lost your chance to be heard don this trail.

Get involved, and don't lose your opportunity to have input on others.

Y'all need to quit your whining.

Tam

[Jeeperator]

I haven't been up there in a while and my questions are with all of the suposedly illegal bypasses closed. Is the trail even worth keeping open. What I am saying is, if the fun stuff is gone and there is just a flat dirt road what good is it to keep it open anyway. If people keep going around the road blocks or barriers the FS is going to close the whole trail no matter what anyway. From the pics of the road blocks and barriers that I have seen it looks like they were meant too fail, it looks like anyone with a 4x4 vehicle could easily bypass them and they allready have. What a waste of money on a poorly designed not thought out project obviosly the project engineer or contractor who did the work has no idea what a 4x4 vehicle can do. If people are burning more trails around the barriers it actually made the problem even worse than it was before. I almost think putting chain link fences up would of been more effective.lol

[Materdaddy]

I haven't been up there in a while and my questions are with all of the suposedly illegal bypasses closed. Is the trail even worth keeping open. What I am saying is, if the fun stuff is gone and there is just a flat dirt road what good is it to keep it open anyway. If people keep going around the road blocks or barriers the FS is going to close the whole trail no matter what anyway. From the pics of the road blocks and barriers that I have seen it looks like they were meant too fail, it looks like anyone with a 4x4 vehicle could easily bypass them and they allready have. What a waste of money on a poorly designed not thought out project obviosly the project engineer or contractor who did the work has no idea what a 4x4 vehicle can do. If people are burning more trails around the barriers it actually made the problem even worse than it was before. I almost think putting chain link fences up would of been more effective.lol

Have you ever taken the time to look around while up there? There's some outstanding views, so of course it's worth keeping open.

There's a lot of us who will take easy trails if they get us remote places, have great views, etc.

[RAT]

I have to echo BlackZZR's recurring statement: GET INVOLVED! There is so much talk about this, most coming from people that don't really know the issues. So get involved, and pay attention to what is happening, learn as much as much as you can. Voicing opinions is part of being an American; make them informed opinions, they make us look so much better.

[Jeeperator]

Have you ever taken the time to look around while up there? There's some outstanding views, so of course it's worth keeping open.

There's a lot of us who will take easy trails if they get us remote places, have great views, etc.

I understand your point, the veiws are pretty nice but I like most of us here didn't dump a ton of money in the jeep to drive on dressed dirt roads. I like some challenge to get to the remote places. If I can drive my honda civic up there why do I need a jeep LOL.
It's my understanding if people keep going around the barriers and road blocks and cutting new paths the FS is going to lock the gate and close the trail for good.

[aw12345]

Well here is some food for thought, get the NRA involved in the encroachment on lands that are open to public use. They have a very powerful lobby in place and most if not all of their goals coincide with ours. For this land grabbing to stop or slow down, you have to start thinking big. Otherwise we all be mall crawlers and the only shooting one can do is at with a club membership at a membership indoor range, much like Canada and many parts of Europe. We are talking about our civil liberties going down the toilet in a hurry here!

[bullysteve]

art is that a cheap shot at canada LOL .....

[Materdaddy]

I understand your point, the veiws are pretty nice but I like most of us here didn't dump a ton of money in the jeep to drive on dressed dirt roads. I like some challenge to get to the remote places. If I can drive my honda civic up there why do I need a jeep LOL.
It's my understanding if people keep going around the barriers and road blocks and cutting new paths the FS is going to lock the gate and close the trail for good.

True, a Jeep (or any modified 4x4) wouldn't be needed for true fire roads (not Art fire roads), but I guess what I'm saying is that Cleghorn wasn't always a road with "extra credit" all over the place. I hope people understand that and don't keep cutting around the barriers to get even the "fire road" shut down altogether.

[blackZZR]

9 am, tomorrow

[Mitch]

ZZR,

If my Jeep was running (broken rear leafspring) I would have sat there with you and tried to have spread the word. I don't think other user groups care as much as we do about trail issues. Good luck.

But so many here are missing the fact that most of these "side trails" were "burned in" by a DOZER under the eye of the SBNF and CAL FIRE as a second fire-break and did have a LEGAL SBNF trail designation at one point (X2W47). So most of the talk is BS as to how these "side trails" actually were created. I don't want to lose it all, but we are losing trails at an alarming rate, and this is only one example. We all need to fight the battle, but we do need to understand the truth to what is happening.

Sorry if this offends anyone, it is my opinion.

Mitch

[nwoods]

Let's also not loose sight of the fact that Cleghorn is (was up till recently) probably the second most busy trail in all of California. SBNF could have ( and has) closed dozens of miles of lesser run trails with little if any fallout. Instead they attacked one of the most popular trails in the entire area. There is a special hell for whoever that heartless administrator was.

[blackZZR]

thanks Mitch for the support

I feel that each and every attempt to save any trail is worth more than gold nowdays, and gold is at a record level.
It would take but a short visit to my website to know I am totally committed to this issue. I donate a lot of time and effort because I am tired of showing up to trails I have taken before to find them closed.
It is not just forces with agendas to close them I fight. You will see that I firmly believe that we need to educate those who do not know. A huge part of land Access is the sa,me public that both wants to see trails shut, and the public that uses trails is not very educated on issues such as tread lightly or even know the facts of what is going on.
You see, there is no formal education you have to get to be either a trail rider, or a greenny, all you have to do is get an idea.
My day on trail today will be to help educate a few about what it will take to keep the managing authority happy with us, and they are on our side. If I can affext the actions of 1 group, I will have been successful and that will make my day worth every effort I put into it.
Like I said, thanks for the support.
NWoods, I hear what you are saying, but I could come up with 1000,excuses not to do this, but I could never justify one of them if I see another trail closed. I am willing to do what it takes. Now as I have stated, if out if the thousands of members of MJR there are, I cannot find 10 to stand with me to do this, then I will never mention Land Issues again here.
If it was a 1/4 mile trail to a lookout, it is as important as any other trail up there, and the impact would be the same. It matters not that cleghorn is so much used, it matters that because it is so much used that the amount of these side trails grow every year. And that is the real issue the Forrest Service has with the side trails. That is the issue we must get stopped or lose the trail. It is ourselves who need to realize that, and realize each and every trail up there is under the effect of our own actions. You see the number of users is why we need to do this.

[blackZZR]

from my droid

great day, contacted 5 bi groups, several small groups
everyone understood, helped 2 big groups find way to 2N17x on map,everyone thanked me, several really thanked me for my extra effort to stand out there just me and the wife and try to educate others so the trail could stay open. No one had a bad word to say.
Very good day.
Oh, No one showed up, so as promised, you all can sooth your conscious knowing I will never speak land access issues here again.