Big Bear

[Mitch]

Thank you Doug for the clarification.

[MrBash]

Shant,
I don’t think anyone questions your respect for the land. I have wheeled with you and I do not for a minute believe that you are a renegade wheeler that goes where ever he wants. For me the issue I had were these comments:



Before I got involved in AAT I too was angered by the same things you are. Getting involved opened my eyes to the reasoning behind some of the decisions.

As mentioned earlier the SBNF is an Off Highway system not an Off Road system like most of BLM land. If the FS allowed everyone to travel where ever they want eventually the forest would not have the beauty you enjoy so much.

To explain what I mean let’s use Cleghorn as the example. Recently the FS blocked a few unauthorized routes on this trail. Am I happy about this? No. The V-Notch was my favorite part of that trail. But I understand the reasoning behind it and long term affect it has for me to enjoy the forest. Those routes were created by individuals going “Off Road”. As time went on one bypass turned in to another and so on. If the FS continued to allow this type of travel eventually there would be nothing to see accept dirt trails. If this happened the greenies would have a field day on our sport and the proof they needed to show what our sport does to the land.

Some would argue why not just designate them and leave them? So what happens when the next generation of off roaders starts creating more bypasses? Do we designate them as well? When does it stop?

Not everyone resects the forest as you do.

Now if you had wrote:


We would be in complete agreement.:wink:

Understood very well. On the to do list is to join AAT. Work in progress. There is so much I want to do, time permitting.

[dirtman13]

Look forward to seeing your there. We are going to need a lot a help come spring.

[Mike]

look forward to seeing your there. We are going to need a lot a help come spring.

x2!

[curtis]

They didn't close heartbreak ridge (2N61Y)or(pontiac loop). What they did close was (2N89Y) From the Round valley group campground to (2N01).





They also closed this trail

[Mitch]

Hmmmm...... Priviously numbered trails closed? Interesting. Thanks for the info Curtis. Good to hear about Heartbreak Ridge.

[curtis]

Today I saw maybe 25 to 30 boulder brush ugly piles of C##P.
Some of them did nothing.Most were not needed. Some did not block anything that needed blocking.

To me the forest was a lot better off(looking) if they had left the roads alone. Every time the goverment tries to fix something they just make it worse!!!!

I have been jeeping in these mountians for 50+ years and it just makes me cry to see what has happen to them.

[Mitch]

Amen my brother

[DRB]

I only started jeeping a year ago,but I love it,all the wonderful,and beautiful history that one can learn is tremondous.The closing of any trails and mines is complete BS.

[bigbearwheeler]

A few comments from a Big Bear Resident.

After reading many of the post on this site it is clear that there are many folks out there that have no idea of what their talking about. They do have the right to express their opinion, but they really should find out more about the subject matter before they say anything.

As a local up here in Big Bear, I not only 4 wheel in the forest, I mountain bike and am an avid dirt biker. I know many of you don't like dirt riders, but again they have the right to use the forest as much as anyone.

This is an issue we all should be addressing and working together on. The closures we're talking about are NOT seasonal. These routes will never be open to us again unless we fight as a group to re-open them. It's as simple as that. And there are several roads we're talking about. Not just a few.

Yes, these are not numbered roads for the most part. But why should we be all confined to what the Forest Administratiion calls open roads. We never have been before and who gave them right to tell us what existing roads are legal and which one's are not. We're talking about roads that have been there for over a hundred years in many cases.

Bottom line on this. This is our forest. Not theirs. They are simply paid cartakers and they are not doing their job by closing us out of most of it. We should not have to worry about fines or even having our rigs or bikes confiscated because we stray off a numbered road. We're not talking about bushwacking accross the forest and distroying and vegistation or even leaving a track off a dirt road. We're talking about the use of existing and obvious forest dirt roads. That's it.

What we all should be doing is this. Asking these questions. Why are they now doing this when they never have in the past. Who is instagating it and where is the money coming from in this ecconomy. I though the State of Calif was broke !!!

Final comment. As a Big Bear local and as a forest user almost ever weekend, I am appalled at anyone who in any way supports what for Forest Administration is doing at the present time. You are simply on the wrong side if you do. And you are helping them keep us out of our own forest. At least come up here and take a look for yourselve's, then state your case.

As far a volunteering your time in the Forest these days. I support that. But don't buy into the rhetoric that if you don't somehow we'll lose even more then we are now. That's what they want us to think. It would be illegal for them to close us out of our own forest any more then they are now, and many of us are wondering if what their doing now is even legal.

You'll be hearing more from me on this subject and you can join us in our efforts to get to the bottom of this. Please Please work with us on this. We need everyone to get on board and we must make ourselve heard.

Ron Griffo
Big Bear Resident.

[Russ Chung]

What happened to 2N68Y???

What happened to 2N68Y? The map as of Feb 2007 that was used in the route designation process shows the trail, but the current Motor Vehicle Use Map doesn't show it. I wasn't that familiar with the area during the route designation process, and I don't recall the discussions about this particular trail, but I suspect it has something to do with the purchase of the land that the trail crossed by the Wildlands Conservancy.

The Feb 2007 map shows both 2N64Y and 2N68Y:



The current MVUM still shows 2N64Y leading to the Juniper Springs Campground, but 2N68Y has disappeared:

[sized]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/UF92134/Big%20Bear%20Map/image003.png[/sized]

[sized]http://i334.photobucket.com/albums/m438/curtisjojo/heartbreak001.jpg[/sized]

[curtis]

Russ the trail from juniper springs to 1N01 is still open.



And here is some of the blockage on it.








Russ 2N69Y Starts only about a mile and a half or so from hwy 38 on 2N01.

[bigbearwheeler]

One more comment from a Big Bear wheeler.

I think I can speek for just about everyone, that we do NOT in any way advocate anyone doing anything illegal pertaining to these road closures. Please do not go out there and move boulders around, cut wire or do anything distructive to government property.

Our goal is to address this issue in a legal manner and hopefully make a difference using our collective efforts in general.

Thanks
Ron Griffo

[curtis]

Russ those maps do not show how it is out there. The trail
2N64Y runs from juniper springs camp to 1N01.

[Russ Chung]

Curtis,

I was on 2N64Y two months ago. And I also took the trail that connected Juniper Springs Campground to Tom's Cabin and 1N01. I didn't realize until I checked the MVUM for this discussion thread that I was guilty of taking an unauthorized trail (please don't turn me in). 2N64Y to Juniper Springs Campground is an authorized route. South of the campground, the trail can still be found, but it is not authorized. I don't think I was near 2N68Y, but it seems strange that the trail was blocked, and yet the trail markers are still there. I remember Greg Hoffman telling us that the way to tell if you are on an authorized route is to look for the trail markers.

During the route designation process, I was focusing my attention on Pontiac Sluice/Heartbreak Ridge, and I didn't pay enough attention to the decisions being made around Juniper Springs. I don't have a copy of the final Route Designation Report, so I don't have any information about the rationale for closing 2N68Y.

Russ