SBNF OHV Info

[dirtman13]

It appears to me that the agencies are doing the minimum required to get public input.

That's how it's done. Putting out minimal information will get minimal resistance.

[FishPOET]

Did it ever occur to the SBNF to post it at the trail head?

There is a lot of information already at the trail head. The information that is there gets ignored.

People will always find an excuse to play the victim.

[Nipple Twister]

Finally....

It appears to me that the agencies are doing the minimum required to get public input.

DING DING DING DING DING....We have a winner, tell'em what hes won Johnny.....


I agree whole heartly!

[nwoods]

There is a lot of information already at the trail head. The information that is there gets ignored.

People will always find an excuse to play the victim.

That's just BS Doug. A nice yellow or red sign saying in plain English (non-governmentalize) is all that's needed. Of the tens of thousands of users of Cleghorn trail, you really think it would go unnoticed? I have never considered you to be unintelligent, but I think you just called me stupid. I support and appreciate your actions and your involvement in the SBNF, but you are too close to the throne on this one Doug. The SBNF has !!!!ed up this trail handling issue at Cleghorn something fierce. It's indefensible, inarguable, and mystifying all at the same time, but real and tangible this stink is, and I hope heads roll because of it. The more you defend their actions on this particular issue, the more that stink applies to you. Sometimes ya just gotta say, Yeap, that was stupid.

[sarah]

That's just BS Doug. A nice yellow or red sign saying in plain English (non-governmentalize) is all that's needed. Of the tens of thousands of users of Cleghorn trail, you really think it would go unnoticed? I have never considered you to be unintelligent, but I think you just called me stupid. I support and appreciate your actions and your involvement in the SBNF, but you are too close to the throne on this one Doug. The SBNF has !!!!ed up this trail handling issue at Cleghorn something fierce. It's indefensible, inarguable, and mystifying all at the same time, but real and tangible this stink is, and I hope heads roll because of it. The more you defend their actions on this particular issue, the more that stink applies to you. Sometimes ya just gotta say, Yeap, that was stupid.

Instead of getting upset and venting publicly about it, why not make a list of websites that you expect the FS to post information to and send it to them? After all, if no one complains, how are they supposed to know they are doing an inadequate job?

Doug is right, you're going to have to look for the information. Putting up signs is a good idea but they are expensive and require manpower (our tax dollars). However, maybe in the future we can take up some donations and volunteer with the FS to get something like that done.

[nwoods]

They spent millions of dollars destroying what they KNOW is one of the most heavily used trails in all of California, and you think arguing about $5k in signage is really worth talking about? I will answer your question, but it is only in terms of adding info. I do not really feel that it's the best way. On site signage is fairly fool proof, even if Doug thinks we are too much the fool.

[bullysteve]

i'm with nathan on this one , you think out of all the people here that help with trail clean up and repairs someone would of heard something if this was mentioned a year ago its seem's to me they tried to keep it from as many offroaders as possible , one RED sign posted at the trail head (15 and cleghorn) warning of the closure or debate would of brought attention to many offroad sites since several use the trail on a regular bases ....

[RAT]

Guys, I appreciate your comments, but whats done is done and it will be difficult if not imposible to reverse. Lesson learned. Let's move on with a positive goal in mind of getting as much information both from and to the FS officials so we can keep this from going unoticed again. We have to be at least as involved and vigilent as our detractors or we don't stand a chance. I'm doing what I can, watching the various websites, checking with the FS regularly, and getting out at every opportunity to see what's going on. Anthing positive you can contribute to the cause will help. Making comments here on this forum shows your interest and passion, but it does little to stem the tide of closures. It takes a lot more involvement. I thought volunteering for AAT would be enough, and for a while it was. But the forces that be refuse to see what we do to help keep the balance between responsible off roading and destruction of habitiat. It takes feet on the street (or trail) to get ourselves in a postion of power. That and a bunch of money for legal stuff. I give what I can, but most of that is time. If we as a group all give what we can, we would be so much stronger than we are today.
Wow, sermon is over. Shoulda worn my robe

[sarah]

Nathan/Steve, I think our point is that you're shaking the stick at the wrong group of folks here. As Kurt said, we need to stay positive. Use your time to find the next issue - divided we all fall.

[mkjeepers]

[COLOR="Blue"]Nice sermon Kirt. You and Sarah are right, we need to keep in the loop of where land issues are going and do what we can to have our view heard. You would be surprised what one letter or phone call to a public official can do.

I know some are better at politics than others, but staying together on the efforts is where success will be won.

I've heard that a personal letter of phone call to an elected official goes the furthest, and you can request a written responce to you concern.

Remember that most officials recieve courteous responces better than ones that seem to be just thrown in their faces.[/COLOR]

[karstic]

They spent millions of dollars destroying what they KNOW is one of the most heavily used trails in all of California, and you think arguing about $5k in signage is really worth talking about? I will answer your question, but it is only in terms of adding info. I do not really feel that it's the best way. On site signage is fairly fool proof, even if Doug thinks we are too much the fool.

Actually the contract award for the whole project was less than $400k.

Was the FS supposed to sign every trail that was to be affected by the Route Designation Process? I wonder how much that would have cost? For temporary signage.

The OHV community needs to become PROACTIVE. We need to engage our land managers and find out what is GOING to happen on our public lands rather being REACTIVE to things that have happened on our public lands.

[nwoods]

Actually the contract award for the whole project was less than $400k.

Was the FS supposed to sign every trail that was to be affected by the Route Designation Process? I wonder how much that would have cost? For temporary signage.

The OHV community needs to become PROACTIVE. We need to engage our land managers and find out what is GOING to happen on our public lands rather being REACTIVE to things that have happened on our public lands.

That's amazing! I'm pleased to learn they only wasted a half a million dollars in taking away more access to our land. And do you really think they need to put signs everywhere? Of course not. They only need to put up signs on key, high-use trails. That will quickly and effectively raise the level of awareness for the entire issue.

[FishPOET]

The 400K was spent closing unauthorized routes.

[Pikeman]

The 400K was spent closing unauthorized routes.

x2.

Food for thought.... I am making a huge assumption here that people on this forum follow the Tread Lightly Rules....

If we as an off-road community had been following them and also educating others to follow them then NONE of the unauthorized bypasses that were closed would ever have been there. The fact that the SBNF decided to "Authorize" some of the bypasses should be considered a WIN. Would it be great if we had been able to keep all of them, heck yeah but in a time of "Green" thinking we are gaining authorized trails.

So I say be happy and then get more active in the various groups out there that support our sport.
SBNFA- OHV and AAT, CORVA, CA4WDC, Blue Ribbon, FOJV and many more. Remember participation in these groups usually means you are out there wheeling so why not be giving back as you enjoy the trails.

[JeepGal]

x2.

Food for thought.... I am making a huge assumption here that people on this forum follow the Tread Lightly Rules....

If we as an off-road community had been following them and also educating others to follow them then NONE of the unauthorized bypasses that were closed would ever have been there. The fact that the SBNF decided to "Authorize" some of the bypasses should be considered a WIN. Would it be great if we had been able to keep all of them, heck yeah but in a time of "Green" thinking we are gaining authorized trails.

So I say be happy and then get more active in the various groups out there that support our sport.
SBNFA- OHV and AAT, CORVA, CA4WDC, Blue Ribbon, FOJV and many more. Remember participation in these groups usually means you are out there wheeling so why not be giving back as you enjoy the trails.

Excellent response!