Which TJ lift?

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by goodtimes
So you are saying you don't like the OME?

The dampening of the shocks is fine. The length is good. I don't like the bushings and they have leaked a bit.

[Qubicon]

I just got to check out the Full Traction system while at SEMA. They had a frame section with the links and diffs installed. They had their triangulated 3 link rear and long arm front. The axles had handles on them so you could move them through their travel. All I can say is Holy S*#t!!! I spoke with Fabtech, Currie, Rancho and Skyjacker. None compared. They all spoke about trade off's associated with their systems. The FTS guy was adamant that my lifted Jeep will drive not as good, but better than stock. I told him it was hard to believe. He invited me to come up to Sacramento, and take a drive in his Jeep. He was more than willing to put his money where his mouth is. I am sold, and will be taking him up on his offer, and most likely going with their long arm/3 link system. I will keep everyone posted when I go for the test drive. I'm going to try to do it sometime after the first of the year. Hope to have this and some 35's by Moab As for the OME shocks, we used to sell a ton of them at TLC when I worked there. Brian's were par for the course. We found that they had a tendency to leak, and were easy to warranty if they were less than a year old. They made a Landcruiser ride like a caddy.

[goodtimes]

Originally posted by Qubicon
...The FTS guy was adamant that my lifted Jeep will drive not as good, but better than stock....

I guess that all depends on you definition of "drive". It may "ride" better (IE:soak up bumps better, easier on you kidney's, etc), but it will NOT "handle" better.....especially in any emergency maneuvers (slam on brakes and swerve to miss kid crossing road type of situations).

I have only heard about the experience of one person with their long arm kit (was installed on a rubicon). There was some spring issues (too soft), but this was on one of the pre-production kits, so that was apparently taken care of. Other than that, the guy loves it.

What are they using for control arm ends? Bushings? Cartridge joints (ala rubicon express)? Heim's? Anyone know about the long term durability of the FT parts?

[jmbrowning]

OME 4.5" HD springs and Currie Enterprises 4"

Just a few questions.

Anyone actually see a set of OME 4.5" HD springs? High Country Performance 4x4 is supposed to have had them in stock. Mebbe another batch will be made in Australia for export only. OME springs are supposed to be the Bee's Knees.

What's the story on the Currie Enterprises 4" lift? They have been making a lot of highly regarded lift parts (anti-rock, adj track bar), how are their kits? What is a Johnny Joint and why should I want to use it in my lift? I may go with them over RE as they are a California business and not too far away should warranty issues arise.

[Qubicon]

I've talked to the guys at Currie a couple times. They do have a kit that they offer, but could not give me enough specifics to keep me interested. I was told its the best, but not much more. I did see their rock buggy at the show, and I think that the TJ in the Fabtech booth had an equal amount of travel, at least in the front. The rear wasn't too twisted. The FTS uses a combination of bushings, and joints. It appears that they try to keep the links from rotating, but allow free movement on the axle end. I can say, there did not appear to be any bind when going through the travel. When at TLC, the OME leaf springs were hard to beat. They rode great, and had a long life expectancy. The only issue we had was they would creak after a deep water crossing. The coils shouldn't have this problem, and one would think the quality should be the same:confused:

[JeepGal]

Ahhhhh...Johnny Joints.


Well lets see if I can explain it. On my control arms, the bushings are cylindrical polyurethane sleeves. When you flex your suspension, it squeezes the sleeves, causing wear and tear. Also resulting in less articulation. Eventually wearing out the bushing and causing replacement. IF properly greased you SHOULD get about a year out of Poly bushings. My last set was brand new and lasted onewheeling trip...much to my dismay.

Johnny Joints are greaseable metal balls, sandwiched between plastic bushings, that the control arms swivel on. No wear and tear, no loss of articulation . . . infact, they aide in articulation!

I think what Ive heard the primary difference is...is that the poly bushings give you a better ride, makes sense, as they give...and eventually give out.

Some one once told me that for every mod you do you sacrafice something else. Chose your mods wisely, especially if yours is a daily driver.

Tam

[goodtimes]

Lets keep one other thing in mind with the JJ's. Since they don't use polyeurethane or rubber to absorb the shock and vibration that is transferred from the axle, the JJ's will transfer that to the frame. This can result in some added noise and vibration, plus they require much more attention (maintenance).

Also (on the subject of lifts in general), the bigger the lift, the steeper of a angle that the control arm is at, so that will also increase the road feel (assuming you are using a short arm kit)....and it goes on....the farther down the control arms are in their arc, the more fore/aft movement of the axle there will be when you start twisting it up. This will cause some binding in the suspension, and will limit how well the suspension works.

How much of all that is acceptable all depends on the person driving/maintaining the jeep. But the higher you go, the more shock and vibration you will transfer to the frame, and the less desirable of a control arm position you will have.

[Dukes69]

Originally posted by goodtimes
Lets keep one other thing in mind with the JJ's. Since they don't use polyeurethane or rubber to absorb the shock and vibration that is transferred from the axle, the JJ's will transfer that to the frame. This can result in some added noise and vibration, plus they require much more attention (maintenance).

IMHO The benifits from JJ's (Johnny Joints) far out weight their downfalls. I would far rather my Jeep flex nice then ride poorly . . . Its a Jeep, the ride is poor from the factory . As for noise and vibration, this is why Rubicon Express uses a JJ at one end and a stock rubber bushing at the frame. One to flex and one to soak up the noise and vibration. If I were to build control arms for my Jeep, they would be made using JJ's, hands down.

Also (on the subject of lifts in general), the bigger the lift, the steeper of a angle that the control arm is at, so that will also increase the road feel (assuming you are using a short arm kit)....and it goes on....the farther down the control arms are in their arc, the more fore/aft movement of the axle there will be when you start twisting it up. This will cause some binding in the suspension, and will limit how well the suspension works.

Very true . . . My rig has 4.5 inches of suspension lift and the control arm angles are less the desirable. One some of the larger rocks, I find that when I put my tire aginst the rock my Jeep stops and the suspension starts to lift. I either stop or the tire pops up on the rock.

Adjustable control arms help center the axle in relation to the steering and other suspention components, thus helping to reduce binding. But, they still dont fix the problems associated with short arm suspension.

How much of all that is acceptable all depends on the person driving/maintaining the jeep. But the higher you go, the more shock and vibration you will transfer to the frame, and the less desirable of a control arm position you will have.

[goodtimes]

Originally posted by Dukes69
IMHO The benifits from JJ's (Johnny Joints) far out weight their downfalls. I would far rather my Jeep flex nice then ride poorly . . . Its a Jeep, the ride is poor from the factory .

Absolutely. But some people like a nice smooth ride (why those people are inclined to buy a jeep, I don't know) :confused:

Originally posted by Dukes69
As for noise and vibration, this is why Rubicon Express uses a JJ at one end and a stock rubber bushing at the frame. One to flex and one to soak up the noise and vibration. If I were to build control arms for my Jeep, they would be made using JJ's, hands down.

I was going to build a set a few months ago. But by the time I would get all the DOM tubing (2 x .250 for the lowers, 1.5 x .250 for the uppers), 8 RE cartridge joints, 8 PSC boulder bushings, the threaded inserts (to make the uppers adjustable).....add in the cost of new springs, shocks, sway bar links, etc., I was pushing the cost up to about the same as if I were to just buy the 4.5" superflex from RE. So I didn't build 'em.

BTW, the RE cartridge joints are better than the Currie JJ's (IMO) because they use a threaded plate to hold the joint together rather than just a snap ring.

Originally posted by Dukes69
Very true . . . My rig has 4.5 inches of suspension lift and the control arm angles are less the desirable. One some of the larger rocks, I find that when I put my tire aginst the rock my Jeep stops and the suspension starts to lift. I either stop or the tire pops up on the rock.

4.5" seems to be the upper limit of short arm kits. You have the RE 4.5 superflex right? I was thinking about that kit....but I think it is going to be too much lift for what I want. How are you liking it now that you have been able to wheel it some?

[Dukes69]

Originally posted by goodtimes
4.5" seems to be the upper limit of short arm kits. You have the RE 4.5 superflex right? I was thinking about that kit....but I think it is going to be too much lift for what I want. How are you liking it now that you have been able to wheel it some?

Yup, RE 4.5SF. I love it! Flexes like crazy. It amazes me how much flex I have. The ride is ok, the control arm angles ate steep, but tolerable. If you do get that kit I would suggest adjustable lower arms. I am not able to dial in the ammount of caster I want with the adjustable uppers that they supply. Its close, but not where I want it.

[sarah]

wow, i'm so confused. LOL
that's why i have my rick! hahah

[goodtimes]

Originally posted by Dukes69
Yup, RE 4.5SF. ... If you do get that kit I would suggest adjustable lower arms. I am not able to dial in the ammount of caster I want with the adjustable uppers that they supply. Its close, but not where I want it.

Huh. good to know, thanks!

I think I have pretty much ruled this kit out, as it is more lift than I want. I am leaning towards a set of OME 2" springs and a set of "as yet undetermined" shocks. I have learned that the jeep is not the right vehicle to start from to accomplish what I want, so I'm gonna keep it small and streetable (camping, moderate trails, etc).

[jmbrowning]

Johnny Joint drawbacks

I had the opportunity to talk to the fellow selling the Currie lift components. Chad told me that he had sold the components on Sunday, but he was kind enough to chat a bit about why he got rid of the components in the first place.

Apparently, he had bought the Jeep with the Currie lift already on it. It flexed like crazy, a little too crazy. Having Johnny Joints on both ends introduced so much play that if the front end got unweighted, the front axle would actually lift a tire and yaw side-to-side and fore-and-aft unpredictably. Because of this, it was a bit difficult to predict where the wheel would come down. Interesting.

I asked him what lift he was going with now and he told me that he is going to get Teraflex long arm rear and adjustable short-arm front suspension. He said that he had problems with the front long arms getting hung up on things.

Anyways hope that helps muddy the situation a bit more. I think I'll be looking a bit more at the Teraflex and Rubicon Express long-arm systems.

Bye-bye warranty!:yawn:

[goodtimes]

That is the 4th time I have heard &/or seen tera long arms being bent. Sean bent one on the last rubicon run, and I have talked to 2 people out here in AZ that have bent the tera arms. Always the front lowers. I have only talked to one person who has bent a RE front long arm, but they do hang down just like the tera arms do.

I believe the RE's are 2" od, .250 wall DOM tubing. Any idea what the Tera parts are made from?