I got a little thinky...

[RAT]

Trust me, go three link and you'll never look back. Just remember that the mounts and links need to be heavier, especially the upper since it is supporting more load by itself.

[bails85]

The reason I think you should do away with the jk arms is that building your own solid adjustable arms won't be that much of a dent compared to the whole project you're doing. It won't cost much more to make them is what I'm saying. Typically on xj's most make a front cross member or build heavy brackets right in front of the crossmember to mount their links to. Being able to adjust length in your arms will make setting up caster and pinon angle easier to dial in. Plus if your only going to run 3 links you will want the extra strength. I'm pretty sure you can build beefier arms than what comes on the jk. A true 3 or 4 link is ideal. And you must have pararllel drag links and tracbar at the same length to eliminate bump steer and death wobble. I'm not sure what the yj has for room but most xj guys run their upper link on the passenger side. Clayton and other vendors have a driver side link in their kits. Ideally you want your links to be flat or parallel to the jeep which is why the xj guys run the links so long. But xj's have a longer wheel base than yj's do. There are tons of threads on Naxja about 3 links. But it's hard to say whether to look into the tj or xj stuff. Tj would probably be a better reference.

[vwtipeii]

Any reason why not go with a pre-engineered/built system?

Rob can give you a good deal on this system. I used it on my YJ (twice lol):

The Ultimate Krawler System

http://www.rockkrawler.com/




SKU: YJTJLJ_UK
Suggested Retail: $2,349.00
The Rock Krawler Suspension Ultimate Krawler Systems for the Wrangler YJ's/TJ's/LJ's is the perfect blend of pre-engineered suspension and do it yourself (DIY) suspension. By starting with the Rock Krawler 3 piece skid plate system, our heavy duty lower control arm mounts, rear axle truss and new front upper arm mount for the passenger side of the axle, all of your instant centers are known and proven from years of off-road abuse! This takes all the guess work out of your suspension geometry, while still allowing you to customize as you see fit! The systems come with pre-fabricated lower control arms that are made from 2" solid alloy steel with our Monster Krawler Joints in each end and are backed with our abuse proof lifetime warranty! No other DIY system can offer you that kind of warranty! The upper control arms are all DIY! Rock Krawler supplies you with 1 3/4 .120 wall DOM tubing with weld in bungs so you can make your own upper arms. We supply you with 7/8 shank Krawler Joints for all the upper arm connections! The Ultimate Krawler Systems are offered in various wheel bases, so you can choose from a stock wheel base or various stretch lengths! The Rock Krawler Ultimate Krawler Systems for Wrangler YJ's, TJ's, and LJ's are designed to take the abuse of the hard core crawler and offer the best mix of pre-engineered suspension and DIY in off-road market place!
System Benefits:
-Perfect blend of DIY and Pre-Engineered Suspension
-Wheel base selectable systems!
-High clearance lower control arms made from massive 2” solid alloy steel!
-Revolutionary independent three link front end for awesome flex and control!
-Rear triangulated 4 Link that allows for removal of the rear track bar and provides anti-squat for unparalleled climbing ability! Triangulated 4 links are more robust than tri link designs!
-Skid plate mounting design that adds structure to the frame, provides a 1" gain in ground clearance, has a smooth bottom and is made from 1/4" thick steel!
-Weld on rear cradle for greater rear axle strength!
-Heavy duty lower control arm mounts.
-2" solid alloy steel lower control arms.

System Includes:
(2) frame rails made from 1/4" thick laser cut steel, (1) center skid plate that is vehicle specific, (4) heavy duty lower control arm mounts made from 1/4" thick laser cut steel, (1) weld on rear axle truss with tie in plate made from 1/4" thick laser cut steel, (1) passenger side front upper arm mount made from 1/4" thick laser cut steel, (4) lower control arms made from 2" solid alloy steel with Monster Krawler Joints on each end, (3) pieces of 1 3/4 x .120 wall DOM tubing, (6) weld in bungs, (6) 7/8 shank krawler joints, hardware and rough set up instructions!


*Requires knowledge of suspension setup, welding and fabrication skills.


How To Order -


SKU Number Would Be For YJ's are as follows;


RKUKYJ01 - stock wheel base

RKUKYJ02 - 5" rear stretch - 101" wheel base (est.)

RKUKYJ03 - 8" rear stretch - 104" wheel base (est.)

RKUKYJ04 - 12" rear stretch - 108" wheel base (est.)

**please note on YJ's we push the front axle forward approximately 2" on all systems!


SKU Number Would Be For TJ's are as follows;


RKTJUK01 - stock wheel base (97-02)

RKTJUK02 - stock wheel base (03-06)

RKTJUK03 - 5" rear stretch - 99" wheel base (est.) (97-02)

RKTJUK04 - 5" rear stretch - 99" wheel base (est.) (03-06)

RKTJUK05 - 8" rear stretch - 102" wheel base (est.) (97-02)

RKTJUK06 - 8" rear stretch - 102" wheel base (est.) (03-06)

RKTJUK07 - 12" rear stretch - 106" wheel base (est.) (97-02)

RKTJUK08 - 12" rear stretch - 106" wheel base (est.) (03-06)


SKU Number Would Be For LJ's are as follows;

RKLJUK01 - stock wheel base

RKLJUK02 - 4" rear stretch - 106" wheel base (est.)

[aw12345]

Ha Brett, Ted likes cheap the Rockkrawler stuff is not going to happen. They should at to the advertisement that it makes your Jeep want to sniff the air way up high in the front :-)
I like the Rock Krawler long arm set up for TJ's a bud of mine had a blast with one of those at JV.
The YJ long arm setup does not impress me at all

[bails85]

Pre built kits are nice because they take the guesswork out. However 2400 dollars is a lot of money. I could build a 3 link kit for my jeep for a lot less with the same performance and strength.

[vwtipeii]

It only shot the nose up at the sky because I didn't have any anti-rocks front or rear, or limiting straps so the thing was a total slinky. She is much better now

Disco Jeepy is going to be great... I hope to get her back on Monday or Saturday!

[6spdYJ]

Thanks for all the input guys! I feel like Captain Brainfart. I mistook what Art was saying about the draglink - I thought he was talking about the wishbone. No wonder I was confused. What are your thoughts/experiences with the upper link; driver's side, passenger, best place to mount on the housing, length?

Art, you kinda have me figured out, but there's a little more to it. If a guy can combine existing stuff to make a decent system that anybody can afford, why not? Bails hit the nail on the head.

Oh yeah, Brett, if you haven't replaced your exhaust manifold yet I know of a very affordable stainless, mid-length header that's sold as a replacement exhaust manifold. It does help the power. I can also help you with advancing your timing to get a bit more power if you're interested

[aw12345]

The upper link goes where it fits best, mounting it on the left to the diff housing and somewhere on the frame would be easiest for you.
To keep caster the same through suspension cycling you would make all the arms the same length. Or you can make the upper a little shorter so the pinion keeps pointing at the transfercase yoke, this actually more important in the rear

[6spdYJ]

Thanks Art. I plan on picking your brain quite a bit with this. I was kinda figuring on something like that, but I also have a huge chunk of cast iron on the passenger side with a nice flat surface I can work with. Would it be better to aim toward the center of the axle, or would that matter much? If I go to the right, I don't have to clear exhaust or steering. Since I'm not looking to lift, I should be able to get away with using the same panhard. Ideally the only one-off part will be the top link. Would the top link be best parallel to the lowers? Like you said, with equal length they will keep caster the same. But if they're not parallel, the ends will not follow the same arc and eventually bind.

[dktool]

Oh yeah, Brett, if you haven't replaced your exhaust manifold yet I know of a very affordable stainless, mid-length header that's sold as a replacement exhaust manifold. It does help the power. I can also help you with advancing your timing to get a bit more power if you're interested

On the subject of exhaust, does anyone have a good tip for doing a wrap around the front of the oil pan cross over besides the obvious answer of just do it ?

Is there a exhaust manifold made with a modified outlet angle, straight down or forward facing, or dual outlet style or ?? that would make for fewer small radius pipe bends etc ?

[6spdYJ]

I'm should be picking up my arms this week. I've been tinkering with Dan Barcroft's 3 link calculator. What are some good figures to wind up with in the geometry summary? Seeing as the calculator is for a rear application, does anti-squat play into it much? I'd think it would to keep the front from jacking up and into the air.

I'll most likely be working from the passenger side on the upper. The disco housing has lots of potential for making a bolt-on bracket (since my tools at home consist of a hatchet and a piece of sandpaper) plus, it's located 9 1/2" from the center of the housing. With this in mind, is it best to keep the upper link mount at the axle even with, or above the panhard mount?

I have lots of time and pretty much a blank canvas. Let the ideas roll guys. If it works well, you get the credit. If it doesn't, I'll take the blame.

[aw12345]

For the front the antisquad and what not is more about how it behaves when braking than anything else.
Truthfully try to get the control arms as close to horizontal as possible. 9.5 " separation isn't really needed, shoot for about 7"
For the trackbar it has to run parallel to the draglink and as close to the same length as possible. There same thing goes try to get it close to horizontal if clearance allows

[6spdYJ]

I'm aware of the whole panhard/draglink relationship. As it stands with the leaf setup I have less bumpsteer than a stock JK (a LOT less), so I'm looking to keep that pretty much where it's at. So, should I be aiming to get the upper link as horizontal as possible? I've read a bit about the relationship of the axle mount of the panhard and the axle mount of the upper link having pros and cons. Just wondering about your experiences.

[6spdYJ]

Minor change in plans. I found that the rear lowers will allow me to swing the brackets parallel with the centerline and eliminating some rock magnets. The holes will be 2" from the tube.

I also have a set of JK rear uppers. I have seen some writeups of XJ using these as front lowers. If anybody wants them, let me know. I also have a set of JK 3.73 gears with bearings - no carriers. I don't know if you could use these to make a good set of setup bearings... Anyhow, if anyone wants these just say the word.

[6spdYJ]

Okay, can't decide... Lower arms - 19 1/2" directly behind the tube, on the axleshaft centerline - or 22 5/8" with slight outer offset mounted under the housing and slightly behind the centerline? It seems that the longer arm mounted lower might be the better way. It'll still have better clearance than the leaf setup.