Opinions on HP44 or HP30

[nagal]

Supe,

sorry for trying to help. Just do whatever Blaine says... oh wait he never really said what to do he just ripped on anyone that tried to help.

[mrblaine]

Supe,

sorry for trying to help. Just do whatever Blaine says... oh wait he never really said what to do he just ripped on anyone that tried to help.

I didn't rip on you, I refuted your misinformation and tried to make sense of your contradictions. If I can't make sense of them, how do you expect anyone else to either?

If you consider that help, then by all means, continue.

[blkTJ]

Supe,

sorry for trying to help. Just do whatever Blaine says... oh wait he never really said what to do he just ripped on anyone that tried to help.

:yay: :cactus:

[mrblaine]

Supe,

sorry for trying to help. Just do whatever Blaine says... oh wait he never really said what to do he just ripped on anyone that tried to help.

I went back and re-read everything again trying to figure out why you're cranky. Then I tried to figure out which direction you were headed with the advice you gave Supe. I still don't have a clear sense of it because you're all over the map and you color everything with some veiled remarks about you winding up with a front axle you were unhappy with.

So, in the interest of ironing out everyone's panties, why don't we start there?

What did you have for a front axle and why didn't you think it would meet your needs?

I'll give you my perspective. I didn't give Supe a clear direction to go because there isn't one. Here's why. Low pinion 30, HP 30, LP 44, HP 44, LP 9, HP9, and a True Hi9 front axle will all share the same u-joint.

Since Jack added a radius at the base of the pin on his joints, the breakage has been nil. He hasn't warrantied a new style joint since he did that almost 2 years ago. That moves the weak link to the splines for the 30, and the yokes for everything else. Worse, the splines on the 30 are not always the predictable weak link. I know 3 rigs that broke hubs a few times over a period of 2 or 3 years and then the splines broke, but always with collateral damage and only after a few times of other stuff breaking. That makes me wonder if the other breaks added to it. But, that's not limited to the 27 spline stuff, because we've seen one 30 spline shaft do the same thing and one that didn't that blew up in the carrier bearing. Add a 31 spline shaft that blew with about 1500 dollars worth of collateral damage and the water gets a bit murkier.

I'm a big fan of the HP 30 for it's ease of install, prevalence and price. Unfortunately, I've seen too much collateral damage in Erik's and Sergey's fronts to blanketly recommend it without the Super 30 kit and that makes less sense because of the cost.

But the cost of a custom front axle that may or may not fit right, is high as well. The may or may not fit is important, because I currently own a very nice front axle that could have the pinion an inch more left and I'd be happier.

I've also run a LP 30, HP 30, HP South American 44, a HP 9", and 609 and of all of them, the 2 30's were the best economically for miles traveled on hard trails with the least effort and maintenance. Also, since I perceived them as somewhat delicate, the rest of my damage was much less as well, not to mention everything that it took to support them like steering and hub kits was bolt-on, worked well and lasted just fine.

As a perspective, my two current unit bearings on my front axle cost more than a Warn hub kit for the 30 and that's with no drive flange to actually turn the tires.

Now you know what I'm basing my advice on, let's hear your reasoning.

[Elusive]

I should clrify..
my friend and I actually have identical jeeps. they are both 2000 TJ's on 35" krawlers both have nv3550 tranny.. mr blaine you have seen me on the trail a few times.. one day at the hammers.
I actually have a heavier foot than my friend, but he has 4.88 gears and I have 4.56 gear with a 4-1 t-case.
On my custom 44 front, I actually cut the tubes to a length that I knew I could use off the shelf parts for. the drivers side is a warn chromoly for a scout and the long side is a chevy axle shaft. This kept the cost much lower for the shafts.
I really cheated on my 44. I used a high pinion center section and cut the tubes right at the center section. then I bored the ceonter section to the outside diameter of D-30 tubes I took from an XJ. They had all the brackets and such. I cut the tubes down a touch (the 44 housing is wider) and made the upper control arm mount for the pumpkin side. Effectively I had $50 (bare HP 44 center section) into the bare axle housing with the brackets. I took the out "C" s and did the same... cut the tube, bore the tube, perss them on.. now I have 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and got to use really cheap (and bigger) ford hubs, brakes etc.
The downside is obviously the tube thickness and I beefed it up. I clamshelled the tubes and doubled the thickness. This seems like a lot of work and it is, but I wasn't in a hurry.. it took me a couple years to build this axle, bu I was wheling the 30 the whole time.
I couldn't imagine paying someone to do all this work, and when I build this axle the rubicon 44 did not exist. I think I'd just go that route now, though I really dig locking hubs...
heres a pic of version 1 before the ford outers:

[Matt Pascoe]

I actually have a heavier foot than my friend, but he has 4.88 gears and I have 4.56 gear with a 4-1 t-case.

That may have something to do with your friends breakage. Manual tranny without 4:1 in the rocks makes it very tough to drive with finesse.

Point, shoot, bump, bounce

[TJSUPE]

SO I decided on the hp 30. I have a housing coming in soon that I will slowly start building up on the side. I think it will be a fun project to work on....

[brian4.2]

I've been running an HP30 for a couple of years on my 99 TJ with zero problems, good choice. My upgrades are as follows. 48s, alloy shafts, ARB, 35" MTRs, 5 speed, 241 Tcase, 4:1. I really dont baby it.

[TJSUPE]

Sweet, thanks for the info...

[goin big]

Finally, I've seen far more screwed up supposed bolt in custom axles than should be legal. The one thing I know about HP 30's is that they are a direct bolt-in with no more fudging whatsoever than the axle you took out.

All the rockcrawling pros run aftermarket axles for a reason


My two cents...... I did the research on axle options and what the expence of repairing and trying to create a strong reliable axle out of weak OEM pieces would ultimately cost and here it is. While my buddies are breaking, crying, repairing, breaking, crying etc. my Dyna Trac 60's haven't failed yet. I'm one of the most agressive drivers in my group of friends and run 38.5" swampers, 37" mtr's, and 44" boggers without failure.

[mrblaine]

All the rockcrawling pros run aftermarket axles for a reason


My two cents...... I did the research on axle options and what the expence of repairing and trying to create a strong reliable axle out of weak OEM pieces would ultimately cost and here it is. While my buddies are breaking, crying, repairing, breaking, crying etc. my Dyna Trac 60's haven't failed yet. I'm one of the most agressive drivers in my group of friends and run 38.5" swampers, 37" mtr's, and 44" boggers without failure.

And your recommendations are very appropriate for someone running big tires with a heavy right foot.

More appropriate for Supe's needs and type of wheeling will be the HP 30. Fortunately it also matches his pocket book a tad better than 10,000+ dollars worth of axles from DynaTrac.

BTW- Even Dyna Trac uses a fair bit of OEM pieces in their axles, so I'd not consider all OEM to be weak.

[goin big]

Other than brake assemblies, which parts are OEM? Thier own center section, thier own outer assemblies, 1/2" wall axle tubes (on front), custom axle shafts, choice of gears, lockers, correct setup and ????

[blkTJ]

Other than brake assemblies, which parts are OEM? Thier own center section, thier own outer assemblies, 1/2" wall axle tubes (on front), custom axle shafts, choice of gears, lockers, correct setup and ????

bearings, gears, yokes... all things that can break in a stock setup.

the greatest thing dynacr.. ever came up with was their own axle shaft design. meaning if you buy their axle and bust one of their shafts, you have to buy another one from them. yup, that's right, aftermarket alloy axle shafts for the same dana make will not work in a dynatrac. i can also tell you by side to side comparison that a superior alloy 44 flange is considerably beefier than what dynatrac stuffs in it's housings.

just sayin'.

[mrblaine]

Other than brake assemblies, which parts are OEM? Thier own center section, thier own outer assemblies, 1/2" wall axle tubes (on front), custom axle shafts, choice of gears, lockers, correct setup and ????

Cast center sections rarely if ever fail, oem or otherwise. Outer Assemblies are about the same. In fact, one of the more sought after knuckles and inner C's come off of stock Ford axles.

As far as Custom Axleshafts go, I'd put my front Superiors out of my front 9" up against DynaTrac's anytime. And, I've run with several folks with Dyna fronts that still have the stock OEM D-60 shafts. As far as the rear goes, DynaTrac uses a stock Ford Big Torino set 20 bearing on their 35 spline rear 60 axles.

Gears are generally OEM and rarely do they have an issue. In fact most OEM gearsets are more desireable than aftermarket because they are Dana Spicer.

Don't take it the wrong way, I ain't slamming Dyna Trac. They make good stuff. But there's a bunch of OEM technology there and without it, they'd not be so good.

[goin big]

mrblaine/blktj, Crack Kills,......Stay off the pipe!