Opinions on HP44 or HP30

[TJSUPE]

I know the HP30 is pretty capable especially after upgraded shafts and hubs. Is the 44 worth waiting and looking for? I have chance at a HP30 soon.

Opinions please..

[Elusive]

as with most things.. it will have it's limits.
heres a good example.
3years ago I built a HP 44 for the front of my TJ and a good friend built a d-30 for his TJ. We both used chromoly shafts, CTM U-joints, and all new parts, but I installed an ARB and he used a detroit. I also have hubs and he has unit bearings.
We have wheeled together on almost every run. I have actually done a few more than him, but not much, so the abuse the axles have taken is very similar.
heres the tally on broken parts:
him...
1 chromoly stub shaft stretched ears
1 shattered detroit locker
1 chromoly shaft snapped at the splines
1 chromoly shaft twisted at the splines
the shattered splines took out the ring and pinion
me...
nothing. no breakage at all.

[blkTJ]

as with most things.. it will have it's limits.
heres a good example.
3years ago I built a HP 44 for the front of my TJ and a good friend built a d-30 for his TJ. We both used chromoly shafts, CTM U-joints, and all new parts, but I installed an ARB and he used a detroit. I also have hubs and he has unit bearings.
We have wheeled together on almost every run. I have actually done a few more than him, but not much, so the abuse the axles have taken is very similar.
heres the tally on broken parts:
him...
1 chromoly stub shaft stretched ears
1 shattered detroit locker
1 chromoly shaft snapped at the splines
1 chromoly shaft twisted at the splines
the shattered splines took out the ring and pinion
me...
nothing. no breakage at all.

care to comment on the differance in your driving styles? :dunno:

[nagal]

Which HP44 are you thinking about?

[TJSUPE]

I'm really not sure yet. I am just thinking ahead for the swap. This is nothing that is going to happen now.

[nagal]

Since you are just researching and not sure yet have you looked into a Hi9 or TruHi9 for the front?

Building a HP30 is fairly straight foward and bolt in but most would agree it limits you to 35s. That may never be an issue. But since you have not invested anything yet, look at other options. Not saying the HP30 is bad but there are other options.

[jimmyrig]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as applied to a front application , a high pinion 44 or any high pinion for that matter is riding on the strong side of the teeth, and with ctms, chrome molly shafts, you basically end up with a stock 60 almost......At least lets hope so, thats what I am running on 37 and full detroit

[TJSUPE]

So how available are the HP 44's? One thing I like about the HP30 is the availability of it and its ease of install.

[nagal]

Correct me if I am wrong, but as applied to a front application , a high pinion 44 or any high pinion for that matter is riding on the strong side of the teeth, and with ctms, chrome molly shafts, you basically end up with a stock 60 almost......At least lets hope so, thats what I am running on 37 and full detroit

Not 100% true. You still need to look at knuckles, bal joints vs king-pins, brakes, steering. A lot of people when talking front axles dont think of these things are there are a tad bit important, at least to me

So how available are the HP 44's? One thing I like about the HP30 is the availability of it and its ease of install.

To the best of my limited knowledge, there is only one bolt-in non-custom HP44 for a TJ, the uber rare South America XJ HP44.

You really should look at the cost of building up a HP30 vs a custom built HP something else. Yeah the HP30 housing is cheap but everything else you put into is not. Just some things to think about. Don't do what I did and rush into a front axle you might regret latter.

[TJSUPE]

You really should look at the cost of building up a HP30 vs a custom built HP something else. Yeah the HP30 housing is cheap but everything else you put into is not. Just some things to think about. Don't do what I did and rush into a front axle you might regret latter.

I may be wrong, but I would imagine for the most part that everything I would put into an HP30, ie: Hubs, chromoly shafts, joints, high steer, etc, i would put into any other custom HP axle...

[nagal]

I may be wrong, but I would imagine for the most part that everything I would put into an HP30, ie: Hubs, chromoly shafts, joints, high steer, etc, i would put into any other custom HP axle...

Correct. I was not very clear in what I said. A custom axle (disclaimer for all the internet nerds waiting to jump on someone for nothing: price will vary with options, axle type blah blah blah) is not going to run that much more than building up a HP30. Since you are young, rich and not married we know price is not an issue

A plus of a custom axles, is you can get it dialed in extactly where you need it (pinion angle, chamber, and what not) for optimal use. With a HP30 you are still having to fudge things (not really an issue for most) within the factory specs).

A down side. Spare axle shafts will be custom, no re-using some old OEM stuff.

Check this out just to get an idea of whats out there. Not that I am endorsing Dynatrac or saying they suck (blkTJ can do that for me) but just something to check out

http://www.dynatrac.com/products_jeep_pro44faa.html

Moral of my long winded story. Make a list of parts for your HP30 and price it (dont forget the cost of gear setup). Call around for a custom built what not and see how it compares. Your custom built will be a direct bolt in.

[Pfeiffer]

Since you are looking at a complete housing have you considered the Rubicon 44 housing? I know it's not a high pinion, but I have sold quite a few of these in the past and ran one with 37" Krawlers and they all held up very well.

Alloy USA also has the 30 spline outer kit available now that make the HP30, HP44 or Rubicon 44 a better option...something to consider.

[TJSUPE]

Correct. I was not very clear in what I said. A custom axle (disclaimer for all the internet nerds waiting to jump on someone for nothing: price will vary with options, axle type blah blah blah) is not going to run that much more than building up a HP30. Since you are young, rich and not married we know price is not an issue

A plus of a custom axles, is you can get it dialed in extactly where you need it (pinion angle, chamber, and what not) for optimal use. With a HP30 you are still having to fudge things (not really an issue for most) within the factory specs).

A down side. Spare axle shafts will be custom, no re-using some old OEM stuff.

Check this out just to get an idea of whats out there. Not that I am endorsing Dynatrac or saying they suck (blkTJ can do that for me) but just something to check out

http://www.dynatrac.com/products_jeep_pro44faa.html

Moral of my long winded story. Make a list of parts for your HP30 and price it (dont forget the cost of gear setup). Call around for a custom built what not and see how it compares. Your custom built will be a direct bolt in.

Some Great points, Thanks.

Also, I am far from rich, just single......and the young thing really is getting tossed out the window....

Since you are looking at a complete housing have you considered the Rubicon 44 housing? I know it's not a high pinion, but I have sold quite a few of these in the past and ran one with 37" Krawlers and they all held up very well.

I would like to stay with a HP if I am going to do a swap like this.

[mrblaine]

as with most things.. it will have it's limits.
heres a good example.
3years ago I built a HP 44 for the front of my TJ and a good friend built a d-30 for his TJ. We both used chromoly shafts, CTM U-joints, and all new parts, but I installed an ARB and he used a detroit. I also have hubs and he has unit bearings.
We have wheeled together on almost every run. I have actually done a few more than him, but not much, so the abuse the axles have taken is very similar.
heres the tally on broken parts:
him...
1 chromoly stub shaft stretched ears

You both have or should have identical axleshafts at the ears unless you left something out. A stub shaft with stretched ears is not a function of being installed in a D-30. And I don't really care who's shafts you bought, if they are alloy, they all started from the exact same forgings and heat treatments.

1 shattered detroit locker

Again, not a function of the axle it's installed in. Detroits do not respond well to any downstream breaks regardless of the housing they are in. We've blown up 9", 44, and 30 Detroits with axle, u-joint and hub breaks.

1 chromoly shaft snapped at the splines
1 chromoly shaft twisted at the splines

I'll give you those two, that could be the shaft diameter. Atypical, but becoming more prevalent as we play harder.

the shattered splines took out the ring and pinion
me...
nothing. no breakage at all.

I don't know how the shattered splines take out a ring and pinion unless it's a function of the Detroit which I'd believe. When the one in the 9" blew from a broken axleshaft, it took out the ring and pinion, and twisted the splines on the axleshaft. That's more attributable to the nasty backlash of the Detroit than housing size.

I'd also like to tag along on a run and watch the difference in driving style because the strength differences in most of what you say broke is identical. You also left out transmission choices.

[mrblaine]

Not 100% true. You still need to look at knuckles, bal joints vs king-pins, brakes, steering. A lot of people when talking front axles dont think of these things are there are a tad bit important, at least to me



To the best of my limited knowledge, there is only one bolt-in non-custom HP44 for a TJ, the uber rare South America XJ HP44.

You really should look at the cost of building up a HP30 vs a custom built HP something else. Yeah the HP30 housing is cheap but everything else you put into is not. Just some things to think about. Don't do what I did and rush into a front axle you might regret latter.

You're confusing me. On the one hand you make a big deal about custom being a direct bolt in, then you mention the only direct bolt in HP axle is the SA 44 with some snide remarks about the HP 30 needing to be fudged somewhat.

You're somewhat clueless here. The HP 30, SA HP 44, and the LP 30 are identical with regard to bolting in. The only difference is snout length and height off the ground which in 2 cases generally allows the same driveshaft to be used. The 44 or 9 in any flavor will necessitate driveshaft mods.

The HP 30 makes sense if you own a LP 30 that you have already started upgrading with lockers, alloy axles, and gears. Toss the gears and move everything else to the new housing.

The flaw in your apples to apples pricing is most already own knuckles, and brakes. Those aren't free or cheap on a custom HP 44.

Finally, I've seen far more screwed up supposed bolt in custom axles than should be legal. The one thing I know about HP 30's is that they are a direct bolt-in with no more fudging whatsoever than the axle you took out.