The Bull weekend of 6 15 to 17

[Beatrice]

well we got to big bear on friday and did a moderate run with some friends when Dad and his buddy decided to hit the Bull before it got beat up by all the Jeeps this weekend doing Forest fest.
Boy was it fun, the Gatekeeper climb in the middle was dug seriously out at the bottom and it took a few line realignmets to get over the first big rock, after that we just went from rock pile to rocl pile idleing along and picking lines. A few repicks and Dads freind kept teasing him that he was having no probs, yea right, he was waiting till dad made it and took his line. Thats alright, at a break to look at all the lights down in the deserts, I peed all over his tires, being a dog has it's advantages. Well we soon were over the hump and walking down, I got kinda jostled a few times so dad let me run alongside, had a blast.
Sunday Morning we decided to do it again, We took a caravan of 3 jeeps, 1 FJC, I Land Rover Discovery, 1 Liberty up and thru. I think it was either being daylight, or the fact that the Forest fest had to get 40 some jeeps through it the day before, but the trail was seriously changed, rocks had been moved everywhere and it seemed much easier this day. THe gatekeeper we had to unroll rockes to make it a challenge as they were stacke high enough to get a VW up the obsticle.
the rest of the way was still a blast, basicly the same trail as 2 nights before with a few changes at a couple of interesting places
here are a few pics

[RAT]

I think it was either being daylight, or the fact that the Forest fest had to get 40 some jeeps through it the day before, but the trail was seriously changed, rocks had been moved everywhere and it seemed much easier this day. THe gatekeeper we had to unroll rockes to make it a challenge as they were stacke high enough to get a VW up the obsticle

I'm glad you had fun up there on JB. The club that maintains that trail just recently went and did alot of work up there. I'm glad you got to run it before it was stacked. What happened to unstacking your pile so the guy behind you has a challenge? Does being in a huge group like Forest Fest preclude you from trail etiquette? We're supposed to teach good habits, guys...

Rat

[blackZZR]

I think the problem is, they know they are going have to stack them the next day
when a event like Forest fest comes through, they are preasured to get all who sign up down the trail. we told guys without the experience or rigs capable not to even bother coming. When we ran it Friday night it was kind of a pre run to see the shape it was in, I had not been on it since June of last year. Knowing we have a lot of IFS rigs we wanted to check the shape of the trail. We decided it was a matter of experience this year, once past the Gatekeeper there was nothing that would stop a jeep on 31s or FJC on 32s. That is why we were so astonished that so many rocks had been rolled. infact the area with the 2 little rocks coming up to the gatekeeper has a bypass burnt in, and those are extremely small obsticles you could make in a jeep SE wit 29 inch tires.
I fear the trails we love so much, and talk about so much are being ruined because guys want bragging rites, they decide to do them, do not have the ability so the modify it so they can, and at theat point make ti easier for the next guy, who then modifies it till we have a broken down easy trail with bypasses everywhere and he major obsticles tamed, it is a shame. I have watched the bull turn from a little run really challenging trail(15 years ago) to a trail with only 1 major obsticle and a bunch of rubble to pass over. the first time I ever took the trail, back in my cj5 getting a winch out was something that was needed somewhere, now you pass through without even thinking of a pull.

[blackZZR]

PS, 2n84 was in great shape this weekend
we ran to the top with 2 h3s 2 jeeps and 3 FJCs and once again were amazed at the views
MJR needs to be proud of that trail, it has one really killer peak

[Materdaddy]

PS, 2n84 was in great shape this weekend
we ran to the top with 2 h3s 2 jeeps and 3 FJCs and once again were amazed at the views
MJR needs to be proud of that trail, it has one really killer peak

I agree, the view from that peak is outstanding!

[RAT]

Little Bear is especially fun in the snow....

[RAT]

I have watched the bull turn from a little run really challenging trail(15 years ago) to a trail with only 1 major obsticle and a bunch of rubble to pass over. the first time I ever took the trail, back in my cj5 getting a winch out was something that was needed somewhere, now you pass through without even thinking of a pull.

Agreed. For those of us who maintain those trails it's a sense of accomplishment when we get them looking like "real trails"; free of trash, debris (for safety and fire reasons), and with obstacles that challenge a drivers skills. I'm not against stacking, done it many times, but break it down afterward. If you have to go do it again tomorrow, that's part and parcel of the sport you've chosen to participate in. If you're leading a group that large and can't follow up, lead smaller groups. I just don't think there is any excuse for not doing what everyone knows needs to be done. That goes for pack it in, pack it out, being aware of wildlife, etc. I'm all about the fun, but there is a huge responsibility that goes with it.

Here we go....

Rat

[sarah]

PS, 2n84 was in great shape this weekend
we ran to the top with 2 h3s 2 jeeps and 3 FJCs and once again were amazed at the views
MJR needs to be proud of that trail, it has one really killer peak

Did you keep track of hours for a report!?

[Mike]

Agreed. For those of us who maintain those trails it's a sense of accomplishment when we get them looking like "real trails"; free of trash, debris (for safety and fire reasons), and with obstacles that challenge a drivers skills. I'm not against stacking, done it many times, but break it down afterward. If you have to go do it again tomorrow, that's part and parcel of the sport you've chosen to participate in...[truncated] Rat

Huzza! Rat, you are dead on. When we ran the trail last weekend, it was nicely challenging for my rig. Heck, we unstacked the rocks that I just helped stack for the jeep in front of me, just see if I could make it. (BTW, didn't make it had to add the rocks again. After $300 in repairs and upgrades, I'm ready to do it again.) I'll be sorely disappointed if the trail's challenges have been severely softened, especially given how much work that the AAT folks did to make it tough again!

[blackZZR]

Did you keep track of hours for a report!?

well lets see
we ran to the peak, stayed there for a half hour, ran down, talked to some guys at the yellow post about properly putting out their fire when they were finished camping, and left, call it 1 hour
we had 11 people in the run, lets average 1 1/2 hours travel time
that gives us 27.5 hours and we taught a group how to properly put out a fire.
plus, on the way up we met a group of sierra club members hiking down and waved , smiled, and asked if they were enjoying the hike. That in itself should be worth extra merit awards.
Trail is in great shape, oh one hummer was noted for chipping a little of that big rock in the middle of the first climb off a little, he said when he got to the top he was going out this week to get a lift.
the other Hummer is really nicely set up, It can get strange talking to different guys about lifts, we do this and that, they do other things, kinda interesting. Oh, yea one of them was the guy who broke down on calico this spring, He has rods welded to his tie rods now and they look bullet proof.

[sarah]

well lets see
we ran to the peak, stayed there for a half hour, ran down, talked to some guys at the yellow post about properly putting out their fire when they were finished camping, and left, call it 1 hour
we had 11 people in the run, lets average 1 1/2 hours travel time
that gives us 27.5 hours and we taught a group how to properly put out a fire.
plus, on the way up we met a group of sierra club members hiking down and waved , smiled, and asked if they were enjoying the hike. That in itself should be worth extra merit awards.
Trail is in great shape, oh one hummer was noted for chipping a little of that big rock in the middle of the first climb off a little, he said when he got to the top he was going out this week to get a lift.
the other Hummer is really nicely set up, It can get strange talking to different guys about lifts, we do this and that, they do other things, kinda interesting. Oh, yea one of them was the guy who broke down on calico this spring, He has rods welded to his tie rods now and they look bullet proof.

Wow, that's great! Any 2N84 pics?

The JB ones look fun - dusty!

[Old Fart]

Several points....

There _shouldn't_ be a need to stack rocks, as the criteria for that trail (or any other Black Diamond trail in the SBNF) is the ability to have at least one route through every obstacle that can be driven by a jeep with 31's, appropriate lift and a single rear locker. (I know this because I wrote the Maintenance Plan for 3N10 back in April)

They will _always_ stack rocks, as their "clientele" wants to feel they've "taken the hard route". They've been doing this for Jeep Jamboree and the other organized events for as long as I can remember (and that's a long time). I've had chats with the "stackers" to put the trail back the way they found it (both on and off-duty), sometimes they comply, sometimes they don't.

I wish I had a solution - haven't found one yet (and I've been looking for one for 34 years)

[blackZZR]

Wow, that's great! Any 2N84 pics?

The JB ones look fun - dusty!

here are 2 scenic ones should not need to explain the first,, the second is looking back at the Cajon pass

[blackZZR]

Several points....

There _shouldn't_ be a need to stack rocks, as the criteria for that trail (or any other Black Diamond trail in the SBNF) is the ability to have at least one route through every obstacle that can be driven by a jeep with 31's, appropriate lift and a single rear locker. (I know this because I wrote the Maintenance Plan for 3N10 back in April)

They will _always_ stack rocks, as their "clientele" wants to feel they've "taken the hard route". They've been doing this for Jeep Jamboree and the other organized events for as long as I can remember (and that's a long time). I've had chats with the "stackers" to put the trail back the way they found it (both on and off-duty), sometimes they comply, sometimes they don't.

I wish I had a solution - haven't found one yet (and I've been looking for one for 34 years)

I agree with unstacking, but I feel so many others do not
I have seen many a killer obsticle disapear because someone wants to get somewhere

Just the area running up to the gatekeeper, just pass where the access trail hits the middle of the trail, there is now a bypass around some minor rocks, 2 rocks that a jeep with 29 inch tires can make, I know I did it once just after buying my current jeep. It is getting so burnt in it now looks like the main trail. I would love to see it blocked off and the obsticles need to be gone over, but I think that it is not the guys doing the trail, but those who are going up the Access trail and coming up to watch the carnage that
have made the bypass, and those guys will just find another way, so what do you do?
I by no means am the most hardcore of wheelers, I run 4 inches of lift and 33s, locked both ends, I would rather do a medium scenic trail most weekends and enjoy a good lunch over looking views like this.



however I do enjoy a good trip down a trail that challenges you, and this weekend took a few friends who had never been on the Bull, I hit these kind of trails but not on a regular basis. I have done my lot of them, like the scenery better, However I do not want to lose them, and feel we need to protect them, however I wish I had the answer, it is beyond me.

[Old Fart]

Do you have any pictures of the area that you're referring to above?

If it's on the trail, I'll talk to Waywegoes about blocking it back off. If "spectators" have widened a "parking" off what we've established as the trail edges, they are off the trail (and subject to citation for violating the DVR)