Camping near Big Bear/Fawnskin?

[Old Fart]

I'll need to call Dispatch on Monday. According to the website - they're still legal at the YP sites - but that post is dated Dec 2009..

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="Sienna"]WAM, I'm asking this not because I doubt you, but because the website mentions nothing about it.

How many vehicles are allowed at yellow post sites?

How many are allowed at dispersed campsites?

Is there no rule governing this?

I'm curious and I don't want to pass "bum scoop" if someone were to ask me in the future. This seemed to be the thread to ask the question.

Thanx.[/COLOR]

[FishPOET]

[WAM]

The only rules I know for disbursed camping are what was in that link. As you said, it doesn't mention size. In the past we've had up to eight vehicles, maybe 20 people. Were always visitied by the local mounties and were never warned or anything. They did ask us to demolish an unused fire ring (which was already there) because the fire rules had changed and you can no longer have fires in disbursed areas.

It's possible that if you get too large or too organized they might decide an event permit is required. Don't know the threshold for that. Best to keep a low profile. And have an adventure pass in the window -- they do check for that.

[blackZZR]

75 people need permit and insurance

[FishPOET]

The only rules I know for disbursed camping are what was in that link. As you said, it doesn't mention size. In the past we've had up to eight vehicles, maybe 20 people. Were always visitied by the local mounties and were never warned or anything. They did ask us to demolish an unused fire ring (which was already there) because the fire rules had changed and you can no longer have fires in disbursed areas.

It's possible that if you get too large or too organized they might decide an event permit is required. Don't know the threshold for that. Best to keep a low profile. And have an adventure pass in the window -- they do check for that.

The rules for dispersed camping are the same as the rules for Yellow Post sites. 36 CFR 261.58(i) (General prohibitions) Possessing, parking or leaving more than two vehicles, except motorcycles or bicycles per camp unit.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.19.2.53.9

[GrimJeeper91]

WAM,

Talked to George earlier and the camp site was fine, however, it's already been taken. Watch for the email later tonight with details of our new camp location.

[nwoods]

I'll need to call Dispatch on Monday. According to the website - they're still legal at the YP sites - but that post is dated Dec 2009..

What's the update on camp fires?

[USMC 0369]

The rules for dispersed camping are the same as the rules for Yellow Post sites. 36 CFR 261.58(i) (General prohibitions) Possessing, parking or leaving more than two vehicles, except motorcycles or bicycles per camp unit.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.19.2.53.9

[COLOR="Sienna"]Thanks Doug. Knew MJR was the place to ask. Always trying to keep it legal and represent 4x4 users favorably.[/COLOR]

[Old Fart]

What's the update on camp fires?

Officially, we're at "Low fire hazard level", so campfires ARE allowed at Yellow Post sites.

[WAM]

Officially, we're at "Low fire hazard level", so campfires ARE allowed at Yellow Post sites.

Just got back. All the yellow signs say no campfires even tho as you said the fire danger is marked low.

The forest service is in high gear placing large rocks across roads and primitive camping access. I saw a couple dozen large dumptrucks carrying rocks into the backcountry, and there are large orange arrows painted on the trails everywhere telling them where to dump. Ranger stopped by where we camped and said enjoy it because it will be gone next year. they just haddn't gotten to it yet. Your adventure pass dollars at work.

On the plus side, they've cleaned up (even partially paved) Polique Canyon Rd which provides easier access into the HC campground. They obviously want to shoehorn us into fewer central sites where it will be easier to manage us.

[FishPOET]

Let me fix it for you

The forest service is in high gear placing large rocks across roads and primitive camping access.

The forest service is placing rocks across illegal roads and illegal primitive camping areas.

These roads and camping areas only exist because irresponsible people feel entitled to drive and camp wherever they choose.

Your adventure pass dollars at work.

It has nothing to do with adventure pass dollars.

They obviously want to shoehorn us into fewer central sites where it will be easier to manage us.

Your option is to allow anyone to drive and camp anywhere they choose?

[WAM]

The forest service is placing rocks across illegal roads and illegal primitive camping areas.

What makes them illegal? Many (not all) of the closed roads are on maps, gps's & guidebooks. Not talking sketchy twin-tracks here, but roads you can easily see on Google Earth.

And what makes a dispursed campsite illegal? The SBNF official site lays out rules for disbursed camping. Minimum distances to highways, water, organized campgrounds etc. Assuming those are complied with, what makes a site illegal? If we were only dealing with clearly illegal activity I would agree with you. It's not illegal even by their own website info.

Since you mentioned my opinion, let me give it to you. The NFS has taken over total OWNERSHIP of the lands...not stewardship. I can't believe I'm the only one who has a problem with that. And the transformation is proceeding at an astounding pace. Don't judge me unless you've looked very recently.

[FishPOET]

What makes them illegal? Many (not all) of the closed roads are on maps, gps's & guidebooks. Not talking sketchy twin-tracks here, but roads you can easily see on Google Earth.

They are illegal if they are not on the Motor Vehicle Use Map of the the SBNF. They are illegal if they do not have a Designated Vehicle Route sign stating that they are a legal, open motorized route. Just because you read it in a book or on the internet does not make it a fact.

And what makes a dispursed campsite illegal? The SBNF official site lays out rules for disbursed camping. Minimum distances to highways, water, organized campgrounds etc. Assuming those are complied with, what makes a site illegal? If we were only dealing with clearly illegal activity I would agree with you. It's not illegal even by their own website info.

I guess if you only choose to abide by parts of the rules and requirements then it is OK? The Code of Federal Regulations set out standards which all federal agencies must abide by. The SBNF then adds specific rules and requirements that pertain to specific conditions located within the SBNF. Perhaps next time you could quote all the rules and requirements?

Since you mentioned my opinion, let me give it to you. The NFS has taken over total OWNERSHIP of the lands...not stewardship. I can't believe I'm the only one who has a problem with that. And the transformation is proceeding at an astounding pace. Don't judge me unless you've looked very recently.

Perhaps if you actually got involved in the process you would understand that the SBNF is doing a good job of managing multiple types of recreation on a heavily used forest.

Once again your option is to allow anyone to drive and camp anywhere they choose?

[WAM]

Okay...I asked two questions of you:

What makes a road/trail illegal? Your answer is it's automatically illegal unless NFS chooses to designate it as legal. I expect your answer is correct and more's the pity.

What makes a disbursed campsite illegal? Well, you didn't actually answer that, but your answer will be the same. Nothing is legal unless SBNF specifies it's legal. BTW, the ranger was unable to tell me of any appropriate disbursed camping area, regardless of what's posted on their website.

You apparently don't see this as a problem. Again, more's the pity. I'm no militia guy, but I can recognize where their motiviation comes from. "Land of the Free..." is just a song.