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  • #16
    Originally posted by FJ Crawlin' View Post
    I think before we go spouting off and dismissing the facts of what BRC does and doesn't do, we may want to read the following response I received from Del Albright:

    Your primary questions were:
    1) What is the stand of BRC at the TDS Safari?

    Answer: BRC is are standing firm with our partners against what CBD is trying to do.

    2) Are you guys getting dirty in the fight?

    Answer: As you probably know, CORVA's recent event was challenged by CBD. CORVA has an ongoing
    relationship with the Eco-Logic law firm and it would be unprofessional for BRC to try to step in. In addition our attorneys often consult with each other on issues.

    Also, it is our understanding that TDS moved their event, so there is no need for "getting dirty" on that. But yes, the whole Truckhaven issue is one we are all watching closely.

    Right now, BRC is keeping track of the lawsuit as well as preparing to participate in the subsequent planning by the CA Parks. It will be a multi-year struggle and if more land trades occur, the situation will change.

    TDS has helped BRC a lot. When they call for help, BRC will be there.

    Now for more details.

    BlueRibbon (BRC) is a key component in the southern CA battles. TDS is just one of those areas where we continue to help. In particular, the BRC Ambassador, Del Albright, is about the most active 4wd land use advocate anywhere. He is fully funded and supported by BRC alone. He attends TDS every year and is a key player in every access issue in CA -- to include helping clubs get involved; teaching leadership; hosting the largest land use and access web site in the world; facilitating grant funding for clubs and trails; serving as Trail Boss for Friends of the Rubicon for the last seven years and leading the efforts to save the Rubicon; and assisting with any and every issue in CA. He also serves as State Environmental Affairs Coordinator for CA4WDC.

    The anti-access forces (within and beyond the agencies) are more numerous, have significantly greater resources, and,
    in candor, have a much easier argument under much of the applicable law. The point is "our" side must coordinate efforts, pick battles carefully, and get maximum "bang for the buck" from limited resources. BRC focuses on issues nationwide, with emphasis on those areas where we are most needed and where local forces are too limited to be effective. But without this nation-wide focus, locals battles would be lost immediately.

    I think it is appropriate to note that BRC spearheaded the only successful "OHV" intervention in the original CDCA suit, and BRC legal folks represented those parties along with Dennis Porter of Cal4. We were painfully aware of the BLM's intent to settle the case, and our clients made the difficult decision to participate in the unavoidable settlement negotiations in order to defend OHV recreation and exert as much influence on any final agreement.

    We can never know how the agreement(s) would have looked without BRC's involvement, but it is plausible to suggest that significantly greater recreation opportunities would have been restricted, such as at the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreation Area where plaintiffs CBD et al effectively wanted to close the entire interior portion of the dunes. Our involvement in the settlement negotiations further addressed Surprise Canyon, and resulted in the inclusion of language clarifying that the settlement agreement could not be the basis for BLM's restriction of access to private property. I note that FOPV/Mr. Lollich's counsel reference this language in the complaint; ie BRC and its co-parties helped preserve the ability to bring the fight now being waged in the DC Court.

    Cal4 leads the charge in many CA issues. Cal4 has always been BRC's main partner in the CDCA case, and has
    "taken the lead" and hired BRC's legal firm directly in the latest WEMO-NECO suit.

    Each group has a niche in our fight for access. The important thing to consider is that each group must consider its overall mission and vision, and fight where it fits. More importantly, "fighting smart-fighting together" is where we can make hay. That is what BRC does and what many groups do. We all can't do it all, all the time.

    While we fully understand the need to prioritize fighting close to home; but home is influenced more by national politics than local efforts many times. BRC has taken significant steps to help ALL fights around the country, realizing that CA has many precedent-setting situations. BRC has joined in SoCal issues in the past, and continues to join in the battle when the criteria of our own Legal Action Review Committee are met, ie sufficient interest/$, decent case, requested to do so, etc.

    Further, we have taken some steps in our legal office to be even more responsive to any CA inquiries, eg hiring a CA-licensed attorney to be part of our team, and having both Del Albright and Don Amador tuned into CA issues daily.
    ##

    Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention so you can help us spread the word about all this.
    Thanks, Del

    Also, I, like many of you wheel outside of California in places such as Moab, Ut. My bang for the buck with BRC is money well spent.

    Mark
    now i thought the one i received was copied and pasted the whole del in third person seemed strange.
    interesting

    pm me the email you sent to him which ilicited this response. i am interested in seeing it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    ERIK


    95 yj, locked lifted, and ready to rock!

    Comment


    • #17
      Umm depending who you talk to someones always in charge of something.

      Opinions can voiced over whos taking the lead...CORVA, CAL or BRC.

      They are all doing something somewhere but not together. Clubs whoever it is Tinbenders , TDS , MJR, JA bla bla support something somewhere.

      Nothing in union. It would be nice to get to a master joint effort , where the funds are being spent and on what, where & why!

      Whats the current cost of legal fees? Research, what about our adversaries? Who are they what are they up to? How do they operate? WHo supports them?

      Is there a study done on the closure's and causes ? Jeeze what elected officials sway to what?

      I would like to see what is being done some place and not by copy and paste on forums.

      I dont want to find out my donations are in some coffee cup!

      Six Sigma... SHOW ME THE DATA
      97 TJ Buffed Out

      LETS ROCK!
      WEB site

      Comment


      • #18
        To get a joint effort, I think is happending in the background that we as the normal user do not see.
        Look at the list of who are taking the fight in the Mojave to keep that open. Cal4, BRC and United.
        I think they normally each take a specific fight, and put lots of money against it. We all know that these fights are not cheap.

        Who is funding the Anti-Access folks? This answer will surprise you?
        In some of the research that I have done, it includes the likes of Ted Turner, PG &E, yes your power provider? Mens Warehouse, United Way of King County, Public Welfare Foundation, Vanderbilt Family Foundation, Bank of the West just to name a few. To find this info, you need to dig into some of these groups financials, and tax returns. These few I listed I found on the web page for Friends of the Earth, and these guys also fund Blue Water Network. If you want more, PM me, and I will try and collect more of the info into one document to send you.

        I am currently working on a college paper about the Mojave, and the desert tortoise. It will possibly cause some people on both sides of the fence to take a good look at this whole issue there.

        Is there a study of the closures? Not that I have found, and I have spent many hours searching the internet in the past two years.

        What do the elected official say to what?
        They vote the way you and I want them, if we write to them. Do not send them the electronic click here to send a message to your congressional Rep. Take the time and send them a hand written letter. This WILL get to them. Anything else will normally stop at one of his flunkies, and you may get the form letter back.

        Clear Creek up her in the Central Valley, was a victory that BRC helped win, and Clear Creek is open again. This is not prime wheeling, but lots of tracks for motorcycles and quads.

        Hope this helped some.
        In the coming weeks, I will start to post more on my personal web site under land use/access. Visit www.tnt-jeeping.com for that info.

        Todd
        Navy-Jeepster
        Proud to be an American! Sharetrails/BRC President.
        Sponsors: BFG, Raceline, Advance Adapters, Currie, T&T Customs.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Britain View Post
          Feb 5th I'll be meeting with a group on the DC closure. Then we'll be in meetings with the BLM later that day.

          I too wonder where my donations are being spent. The 4wheelers groups seem to be splintered and not focused as one. I will bring this up in the pre meeting. I could be wrong.
          I had a discussion with a board member here this evening and several thoughts occurred to me during.

          We were discussing the lack of focus and it turns out we are too focused. Next time you go on a run, look around. Generally, you will not find a wide variety of vehicles on the run with you. We are so focused on segregation from others that not only do we limit our involvement with others to the same brand of vehicle, we limit it further to even the same models within the brand.

          It would be like a motorcycle run consisting of only KTM's with 250cc motors.

          I don't recall the last time I wheeled with other than short wheelbase Jeeps. I do know it doesn't matter to me, why does it matter so much to most others?

          This isn't finger pointing, just observation.
          I am Savvy.

          Comment


          • #20
            MrBlaine

            You do bring up a good point.
            If you also look around, most of the fights to keep land open for OHV use, is normally also segregated the same way. The AMA was also big in providing funds to help on the fight to keep Clear Creek here in the Central Valley open. BRC was lead on it, but they had lots of funds from riders in the Valley.

            All the OHV groups need to work together. We also need to add the hunters who like to use their work quads to get into the good hunting areas. We need to get out of the mindset that most of us have, and enjoy the outdoors with people who have different vehicles than we do.

            I know it has all ready been mentioned, but we have a couple of groups that work to help keep areas open. These include Blue Ribbon, United Four Wheel Drive Association, Cal4Wheel. I am not sure what the National Off Highway Vehicle conservation Council does, but they are also asking for our funds. United has links to NOHVCC for some things. From looking at their web site, they have some good info, but I think they are more for the quad and dirt bikes.

            I think it would be nice to have a clearing house or lead supervisor to direct the direction each group needs to take, and who will have lead on each issue. They would also have one list of all the issues nation wide.
            Would we want our money helping on a fight to keep land open on the east coast? Personally, I would not care, but I am there are others who would.
            As far as I am concerned, this is all one big fight, no matter where in this nation it is. Some people get the blinders on, and only see what is local to them. Even some of our local fights can have national implications. If we can win a couple of the fights here, then it sets a precident that can be used somewhere else, and vice versa.

            United and BRC are pretty good about listing the issues going on all over.

            Todd
            Navy-Jeepster
            Proud to be an American! Sharetrails/BRC President.
            Sponsors: BFG, Raceline, Advance Adapters, Currie, T&T Customs.

            Comment


            • #21
              Check out this link to an article that was run in today's OC Register
              http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1560712.php
              Rat
              [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
              [/COLOR]Join the Resistance...
              http://www.resistanceoffroad.us[/CENTER]

              Comment


              • #22
                nice, Rat. It was even better to see a cruiser!

                This is the kind of publicity that Southern California needs; just alot more!

                Originally posted by rat patrol View Post
                Check out this link to an article that was run in today's OC Register
                http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1560712.php
                Rat
                "run forest, run!"

                Comment


                • #23
                  This is an excellent observation and one that I agree is a problem. Folks need to play together and strive towards a common goal collectively. Whether it's the MC's, shooters, or wheelers, if they go after one group ultimately it does affect the rest of us. The recreational folks need to buck up as one and pull together. Just my .02

                  Mark

                  Originally posted by mrblaine View Post
                  I had a discussion with a board member here this evening and several thoughts occurred to me during.

                  We were discussing the lack of focus and it turns out we are too focused. Next time you go on a run, look around. Generally, you will not find a wide variety of vehicles on the run with you. We are so focused on segregation from others that not only do we limit our involvement with others to the same brand of vehicle, we limit it further to even the same models within the brand.

                  It would be like a motorcycle run consisting of only KTM's with 250cc motors.

                  I don't recall the last time I wheeled with other than short wheelbase Jeeps. I do know it doesn't matter to me, why does it matter so much to most others?

                  This isn't finger pointing, just observation.
                  "run forest, run!"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I agree, and I think that the Calico Clean Up is an excellent example of the community coming together!
                    2002 TJ on 35s a bit of lift with some stuff
                    Rock-ItMan all the way around

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rat patrol View Post
                      Check out this link to an article that was run in today's OC Register
                      http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister...le_1560712.php
                      Rat
                      These were friends of a friend that just happened to stop and help the guy. They had no idea he was a reporter and were so shocked to see the article on them. It's so true how the off-roaders are perceived as trouble, but in fact, are the first ones to stop to help or aid others. We definitely need more publicity like this!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Just got an email from David Whiting, the columnist that wrote that article. I invited him to the Calico Clean up, and his response was positive. It looks like he might show up. Hopefully we'll get more open minded connections in the press and elsewhere that can help us get the good word out there.

                        Rat
                        [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
                        [/COLOR]Join the Resistance...
                        http://www.resistanceoffroad.us[/CENTER]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rat patrol View Post
                          Just got an email from David Whiting, the columnist that wrote that article. I invited him to the Calico Clean up, and his response was positive. It looks like he might show up. Hopefully we'll get more open minded connections in the press and elsewhere that can help us get the good word out there.

                          Rat
                          very nice... i just finished writing him then saw this.
                          this guy is probably getting slammed with invitations
                          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                          ERIK


                          95 yj, locked lifted, and ready to rock!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I sent him a note too. That was a very nice story.
                            :gun:'99 TJ Sport:gun:

                            Comment

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