Important Moab Info

[blackZZR]

After reading the Suwa web site over, and reading it's links. I can only come to the conclusion that they are anti access, I say this because they state that they want to protect Utahs BLM land from ORV use. and that they are against off road intrest from using a 19th century law from protecting trails as highways. this is a call to remove access if I have ever seen one. call the letter what you will, it is smoke to cover SUWA's true intention of anti access

[longtallsally]

Jumping in a little late here...

For starters, I read the letter that was posted here a couple times. I actually didn't see much in the way of negativity towards 4x4s? Perhaps I missed something- and please alert me if I did- but is just seems that they are talking about stopping the creation of public roads in certain areas. Again, I might have missed something.

On the issue at large, I read an article written by Bill Burke on some of the activities he saw while in Moab this year, I honestly have to say that there is some credence to the argument presented. I also have to say that I am not a fan of buggies for any use other than competition- on man made courses. I thought going off road was about seeing the scenery and driving there and being proud that your machine got you there and got you home. Burke talks about guys in buggies on Pritchett inventing a bypass to the rockpile just b/c they didn't want to use the strap or winch. THAT kind of behavior is what needs to stop.

While I was in CO for the last year and a half, a very popular trail outside of Boulder called Carnage is constantly at risk of being closed. There is an open shooting range- that you actually have to drive through the line of fire to get to the trail- which looks like a garbage dump. Shells, obliterated debris, etc. Even in some of my video, you can hear gunshots in the background and it is embarassing to explain it to viewers.

My point is, what is to be done? I have gone through trails in CO where I saw people who had picked up close to a case of beer cans and I often pick up garbage I see. I have read about camping being halted at Spider Lake on the Rubicon due to folks not being willing to carry out their own crap. I am very glad to see that this site WHOLEHEARTEDLY and intelligently advocates responsible activity. However, looking from the outside in, this most certainly is the exception, not the norm. So then, it seems that large scale sweeping tactics that are ridiculous are the only things that bring it to the attention of the public at large. Hopefully- as is usually the case- there will be a moderate outcome.

I have to say that I am an advocate not of closing trails, but of MUCH more stringent regulation of their use. I drive a completely street legal vehicle to the trail and behave in a responsible way. So I don't have ANY problems with them wanting to regulate access. Just don't close it altogether. I draw a correlation to what CA has done for people who ride dirt. I don't think any 2 stroke dirt bike can get a green sticker any longer and even some 4 strokes can't. This is just another example of CA getting it right. Intelligent regulation, not stifling closure.

[blackZZR]

Any clousure is a start toward full closure.
You do not move a mountain all at once, you haul it away trucklaod by truckload. If you doubt that, look up at the mountains on the 10 freeway in colton fontana area that have been mined away for concrete.
The truckload by truckload is the method used to regulate things out. One step at a time till you forget it was there.
If you can get one person to agree, and both get another, etc, You get the point.
We need to First ,be vocal in our non support of closure
Second, Show how decent of citizens we are as individuals
Third, Help to clean up the act of 4x4s who are not part of the good guys by education and showing those individuals our Displeasure to their acts.

I can remember traveling across counrtry in the 60s as a child, Litter was everywhere on the sides of the roads
now after years of antilitter campaigns, you do not see much at all.
that is how they cleaned it up, education and fines
that is how we can clean up the Trail areas
Education, tread lightly, and turnng in those who do not obey the laws, or go off trail etc.
You may not like it, but the future of our sport depends on it.

[longtallsally]

You brought up a very good point- albeit a bit of a grassy knoll correlation that I generally don't subscribe to.

However, we definitely agree that regulation is the key, not closure. It stinks to be regulated to heck, but when faced with that or closure, it is rather obvious the choice. Plus, it is those that accept the regulation who are responsible and behave accordingly and the lazy so and so's who don't are who get locked out.

Don't get me wrong on regulation, though, I generally HATE it. But again, this is an instance where it would do some good until the social engineering over time cures the issues much like in the litter example (I really liked that one).

[blackZZR]

we have to accept a few points
1 the guys wanting us off the trails point out all the bad about us, they never point out we buy passes, we have clean up campaigns, or that we are HUGE advocates for the outdoors staying nice.
2. That it takes only one drunk, or one law breaking off trailer. or one illeagle campfire for all our good to be destroyed
3 They can pull the heart strings of the bleeding hearts with pictures of Bambi and pristeen wilderness.
4 They do not go after the forestry management that we work with to help the areas, they would get nowhere with them.
5 senetors and congressmen look at the numbers of voters, not the issue.

That is why we need to stand up and start getting organized to clean up the act of all the offroaders.
A lobby is a group that goes to the elected officials and shows them what they have to offer. Numbers of votes are what is at stake. If our Vocal numbers got as big as the Tree Huggers, the fight would be who does the most volunteer work. If a forest is closed, there is no volunteering.
So you see, it is a numbers game, and a clean image we have to maintain.
Regulation within our numbers before we are regulated out.

[Rangeratlarge]

[QUOTE=blackZZR]I have found a letter, and here is the link

QUOTE]

Look around the site some more and you will see just how extreme this orginization is....:gun:

Check this page out and look at the ATV slide show!!!:thumbs_do

http://www.suwa.org/page.php?page_name=Camp_Orv_Home

~RAL