Johnson Valley Marine Expansion Update

[curtis]

Genright has a petition to sign.

[Mitch]

Sorry I missed you Reed. I was there with Roger, and also saw Maxwell, Quinn (All J Products), and the Genright crew. Same ole song and dance about types of ordinance to be used, direction of fire, actual clean up and inspection time after a troop movement (maybe a month or so after each twice a year march). Like Doug said, "a lot of canned answers"!

Mitch

[dirtman13]

Couldn't make the meeting but I did submit my comments. Hopefully everyone else that didn't make it did the same.
https://extranet.tecinc.com/29Palms_DEIS/

[Ol Man]

Article in the paper this AM:

http://www.vvdailypress.com/news/vic...spleasure.html

[Ol Man]

I submitted a couple of comments, visited with folk and left. One of my friends had spent some time talking about the sharing process. He had had previous experience getting on base for his business. The Marine he spoke to said you would have to show proof of insurance, registration, citizenship and so forth. This is because you will be entering the base property. Bet this is going to work well.

[Roger]

I was there along with Mitch. We also saw Max, Harry & Helen Baker, & Rich (old man). Not very many MJR members considering how many live in the High Desert. I was disappointed to say the least. Hopefully there were others there and we didn't see them.

I talked to the Editor of the local Lucerne Valley paper. He's was writing an article for the paper regarding Johnson Valley. He asked me if I would give him a tour of Johnson Valley since he has never actually seen it. I'll be putting a wekday run together really soon and if a few of you are available to go with us, that would be great. I'll post it up as soon as I get together with the Editor.

[lamar95x4]

We didn't have the turn out I expected at Ontario or Victorville. Many industry folks did come out at different times but I think the MVP has to go the the GenRight crew being at all three meetings and staying for the entire process. I was one of the Marines at the alternatives and it's frustrating to hear the disappoinment you all had with our dialog. Part of the process and our main reason for the meetings is to seek public input. I did say that the access to the RPAA would require certain things but that process isn't in writing and is one of the main things we are seeking the publics input on. What would you like to see from that process? How would you be willing to participate in that program? Would you prefer to come to a building to get your permit or do it online? I apologize that there weren't all the answers you may have been looking for but that is part of the reason the law mandates we have public input; we don't have all the answers and we don't know what we don't know. Thank you all for coming out! Between all three meetings we had roughly 600 visitors and of all our visitors over 60% commented but we need more.

If there's anything I can help with please let me know. Maybe we can have a better conversation on the trail sometime...

Mike Lamar
GySgt USMC

[FishPOET]

We didn't have the turn out I expected at Ontario or Victorville. Many industry folks did come out at different times but I think the MVP has to go the the GenRight crew being at all three meetings and staying for the entire process. I was one of the Marines at the alternatives and it's frustrating to hear the disappoinment you all had with our dialog. Part of the process and our main reason for the meetings is to seek public input. I did say that the access to the RPAA would require certain things but that process isn't in writing and is one of the main things we are seeking the publics input on. What would you like to see from that process? How would you be willing to participate in that program? Would you prefer to come to a building to get your permit or do it online? I apologize that there weren't all the answers you may have been looking for but that is part of the reason the law mandates we have public input; we don't have all the answers and we don't know what we don't know. Thank you all for coming out! Between all three meetings we had roughly 600 visitors and of all our visitors over 60% commented but we need more.

If there's anything I can help with please let me know. Maybe we can have a better conversation on the trail sometime...

Mike Lamar
GySgt USMC

Mike,

Thank you for your service. I'm not sure I talked with you or not in Ontario. I did talk with one marine who has a Rubicon so we may actually have spoken.

I want you and all of our service men and women to have the best of everything possible. The best gear & equipment, the best food, the best training, etc. I think you'll find that is a pretty common view amongst not only those of us on MJR but most folks in general.

My problem with this whole mess is the politics involved. Not a single alternative included the Cleghorn Wilderness or the Sheepshole Wilderness. That was a direct order from Diane Feinstein that the Marine Corps not include those areas as alternatives.

To be totally honest taking the Johnson Valley OHV area is politically the EASIEST of all the alternatives. That doesn't make it the right choice.

You ask what would I like to see from the process? I would like to see an honest alternative that includes taking the Cleghorn Wiklderness and the Sheepshole Wilderness. I would like for the Marine Corps to honestly consider that as an option. Short of that I feel that that Marine Corps has done a disservice to the OHV community by not considering all the possible alternatives.

Doug Guimond

[Mitch]

Mike,

I feel just like Doug on this issue. Thank you for your service. I am proud to be an american and to have a safe country to live in because we have a great military thats protects that. The Sheep Hole and Cleghorn Wilderness areas were taken for more of the same BS reasons that we keep hearing about lost public lands. Remeber this is not aimed at you personally.

I found it quite funny to see the map of California at the "Open House" with the country of Afganistan super-imposed over it. Then the 3 little red areas representing the Marine Corp bases and property. What I would like to see is that same map with in addition to the Marine Corps land, add the 1 million + acres that China Lake Naval Weapons takes up, and add the over 1000 + square miles that the Army has at Fort Irwin, and the countless other acres and miles of land that is owned and managed by other parts of the military. Then add the 3 million + acres of Wilderness lands that been taken from the recreating public....... Now that map would make it very obvious that we the public are losing our public lands at an alarming rate.

Mitch my .02 cents

[Ol Man]

Thought I would put up a couple of posts from Kristen and Richie Carter. They are On the Rocks members and put these up on our message board:

I am not normally particularly vocal here, nor particularly political, but this JV/Marines issues is a huge manipulation of us as citizens, tax payers, off roaders and Americans. It is absolutely time for every single 4x4 owner to be heard here. This time it's the military. Next time it'll be environmental. Every stitch of land we use is at risk.

Option 3 is THE ONLY LISTED OPTION THAT SAVES JOHNSON VALLEY AS WE KNOW IT!! My favorite option is #7...do nothing. Short of that, we MUST fight for option #3. Every human person you know must fill out a comment card...on paper or online...and simply tell congress you want them to leave Johnson Valley as it is...not one grain of sand lost.

If you do nothing we'll lose. Period.

If you don't care because you don't go to Johnson Valley...remember this: if we lose Johnson Valley then all of us who did use it will be wherever you love to wheel most...all together in smaller space. You lose too. Less land means less options.

I can't be clearer. I can't be more blunt.

Kristen

and Richie's:

It is disheartening to see what the marines have planned for Johnson Valley...and for what? They want the ability to run 3 battalions side by side on a 3 day exercise. The "target objective" is in Johnson Valley. The first battalion would spend about an hour in JV to reach their objective, the second battalion would be in JV for about 3 hours and the third would be in JV for about 8 hours to reach the objective. So they want to take all of JV so they can spend a half a day there. So, right now they have the ability to run the 3 wide exercises for 2 and a half days... The argument that it doesn't give them the opportunity to train is not valid.

They say they can't practice 3 wide now. but the last time they made a 3 battalion push was in Iraq in 2003. I think they did just fine without the practice...

The marines touched on the "shared use" idea... It's not shared use. Be clear, with their plan makes Johnson Valley part of 29 palms. It will be a military base, and access to the area will be just like any other military base... Background checks, permits, proof of insurance on every vehicle you have out there. It will be patrolled my the military (the guys in the humvees with machine guns) and access will ultimately be given only if they can insure our safety.

We as a community NEED to stand up and shout from the rooftops at our Senators, Congressmen, and anyone who will listen about this issue!

[lamar95x4]

Gentlemen,

I take nothing personally. I do own the Rubi and I'm pretty sure we spoke. I recreate in JV also and I've spent most of my career on the east coast in various off-road clubs fighting land closure there. I totally get it. We have lost too much land already for a variety of reasons, and we the people need to let our representatives know that wilderness designation shuts down land for the majority of people that would like to see it. I do appreciate everyones support for JV and for your military. Lets keep up the good fight to keep what little riding areas we do have.

Mike

P.S.
Mitch, I'll see if I can get that map pulled for us and post somewhere here.

[nwoods]

Mike, thank you for your service.

What can you do to get participation in the process? Simple. Go to the people. Have you ever heard of those little population centers called LA and Orange County? The majority of JV users live in LA and JV, yet you had public meetings far away, on weeknights, during spring break. It appears to intentionally be limiting participation, not encouraging it!

[lamar95x4]

Mike, thank you for your service.

What can you do to get participation in the process? Simple. Go to the people. Have you ever heard of those little population centers called LA and Orange County? The majority of JV users live in LA and JV, yet you had public meetings far away, on weeknights, during spring break. It appears to intentionally be limiting participation, not encouraging it!

Woods,

I realize that the meetings were not the most convienent. We had to get them in far enough in advance to have an impact before the comment period was over next month. By the NEPA law we were only required to have one meeting but in good faith 3 were held in the nearest communities we new the expansion would have an impact. I know life can get in the way of doing stuff, I have kids that go to bed at 8pm and I missed it for 3 nights in a row because I wanted to make these meetings the best they could be for our off road community. The comment period started at the end of Feb and we only had about 200 comments before the meetings. This is a big concern especially knowing we had over 20,000 during scoping. The most I can hope for is that we all take the information back to our clubs, friends, dealerships, ect. so we can have a maximum impact. I understand also that the DEIS is a large document that is not the easiest to read, I've tried on several occasions but ended up focusing on the things that really mattered to me (Alt's 1-7 and Recreation) I say 1-7 because there is the "Do Nothing" alternative.

I am here to help! Just let me know. I'm monitoring on Pirate too so tell your friends if they have questions let me know. Maybe we could have an impromptue meeting in JV one of first weekends in May. I may be able to lock something on for Big Bear Forest Fest... Let me know if there would be an interest in that.

Mike

[JeepGal]

Ive had alot of personal stuff going on and couldnt attend.

The Petition to Save Johnson Valley is still alive at www.savejohnsonvalley.com.

Please make sure to tell anyone that signs it to only sign it once to save the integrity of the petition.

Thank you

Tam

[Striker3]

I wish that I could have made it. Unfortunately, I was up in bridgeport freezing my butt off. Was the question ever asked about how the Afghanistan draw down, and subsequent Marine Corps downsizing will affect the need for more training area? IMO, without an active war to deploy a MEB to, the MCAGCC expansion is a non issue. Mojave Viper will probably go back down to 1 training battalion and the home station units can access close to half the base again.

Mike, is there something I am overlooking in my simplistic grunt view of life? I would hate to see JV get taken up, and then become stagnant as a training area.

Man, I wish I could have gone to ask my own questions.