Bad spotter, bad driving, and no seatbelt..

[mJUSTINm]

No single person is responsible for what happened. It's the combination of bad spotting and bad driving that made this go downhill.

I don't consider myself a great spotter, but I've helped friends get through minor difficult sections before just fine. I can tell you that from the start, he was being a bad spotter. Watch his hands. Not only are they just flailing around, but he keeps changing direction. Now watch the driver at the same time. She wasn't following what he was telling her to do. Instead of calling her out on that and stopping her right
there, he continues to throw his hands around in any and every direction. He didn't take responsibility on being in charge of her safety. He was basically standing there as she did what she wanted to do. At the same time, she set herself up for this by not following his (bad) direction. And you would think that a basic understanding of physics and gravity would have kept her from continuing to go up that side hill. It was just a bad situation all around that easily could have, and should have, been avoided.

[OU812]

No single person is responsible for what happened.

I disagree. There is one single person that is responsible for what happened and that person is the driver. Yes the spotter did a piss poor job and basically walked away as she was getting into trouble. But how and where you drive is wholly up to you. If you choose to drive steep off camber trails than you have chosen to take this risk in rolling. If you choose to follow the directions of a spotter you have chosen to take that risk. It is up the each driver to evaluate the risk of taking the line they have decided on or modifying it based on the advice of a spotter. In this particular case I don't think the driver had looked at the hill and chosen a line. I think she was relying fully on the information of the spotter. And I think the spotter had assumed that she had some idea of where she wanted to go.

"Winch and Walk start with the same letter for a reason." my old man used to say. I will never harass someone for stopping and walking thru an obstacle.

[RAT]

I doubt that anyone here knows all the events that led up to this accident. For all we know her freinds could have been cheering her on even though she didn't feel good about it. Even old folks feel peer pressure sometimes. So much speculation on everyone's part here. It was a bad situation and there were a number of things I saw being done wrong or not all. Chalk it up to a bullet dodged and let the poor lady rest. I can just about garrantee she won't be doing that again...

[Schmo]

I think we all can learn from these kind of situations . . . last year there was a roll over video floating around the different forums and it was enough to get me to realize the need to beef up my stock cage. This video sure reinforces the idea I shouldn't attempt certain trails or obstacles without a spotter that I know, trust, and have good communication with . . . and it sure makes me appreciate the spotters that have given me good instructions over the years keeping me and my Jeep in one piece.

[alittleoff]

I was wondering if the rest of the group drove down or turned around?

Steve

[Mike]

I've been down and up this hill several times. What happened here was just DUMB! Not only is this a bad spotter, this is a very seriously inexperienced, or bad driver.

Sometimes, you have to ignore your spotter. It comes with experience...

But, really, would you go over the edge of something called Heart Attack Hill WITHOUT your seat-belt on?


...Really?




Just my :2:.

I'm very sorry for the driver and the spotter. I wish it didn't happen, but I'm glad that you shared this with everyone. I hope that this helps folks avoid this type of accident in the future.

PS: My wife says that she can't believe that anyone runs ANY trails without a seatbeat on.... Just sayin'.

[2blk2drs]

"Winches and Walking and whiskers on kittens" my old man used to say. I will never harass someone driving a Prius

Ha ha!!!

Yay! Ghetto multi-quote worked

[Kodiak Spirit]

The job of the spotter is not to tell the driver where to go or what to do, it's to spot for the driver the things that the driver cannot see. I have spotted for guys that dont mind grinding their rigs against the rock a lil, they just want to know how much is there. The driver needs to communicate with the spotter and the obstical should be looked at by both driver and spotter, the path and plan worked out, and then implemented. I think most of us don't take the time to tackle some of these obstacles the right way. We make it most of the time by some measure of brute force and count it as cool. both the times when I rolled I could have avoided it had I looked at the trail a little more and communicated with a spotter- or even had one.

[Roger]

...This video sure reinforces the idea I shouldn't attempt certain trails or obstacles without a spotter that I know, trust, and have good communication with . . . and it sure makes me appreciate the spotters that have given me good instructions over the years keeping me and my Jeep in one piece.

Hey Joe, I guess this means I won't be spotting for you ever again....

[Skittles]

Those rescue personal are absolutely amazing. To see her body go flying thru the air up to the helicoptor was scary to me. No matter where the responsibility lies, and my opinion is that it is with the driver, I hope and pray that I never get in a position to have to use rescue personal. Those who know me know that I usually refuse ambulances & helicoptors. Always when in dought, get out & look at the trail !!

[Zoobi]

Seeing that video makes me sad. My best wish's and prayers go out to her.

I in no way consider my self an expert. Ive spotted many trails, watched spotters, seen things happen that shouldn't. One of the hardest parts about spotting is going from one vehicle to the next. You spot a few TJ's and the next vehicle up is a narrow CJ. Different track line altogether.

Worst roll I had to deal with was at HDR a few years back. I was tail end on a VERY hard core route. We checked all the rigs in line for the usual stuff, lockers, cage...
Well, I had to lag back at camp a few Min's and 5 guys snuck into our run without being noticed. I showed up and the last few rigs were struggling. Got two of them to the top and the the other three had turned around. The down hill side was almost literally a controlled slide with two drop offs. The hill was about two hundred long.
Somehow I got roped into taking lead and I made my wife and son walk to the bottom (she was pissed0. I told her, if we lost a tire on that it's gonna be ugly. I get down as well as the next two. Ten Min's later I hear over the radio we had a vehicle roll. I run around the corner to see a Samy on its side at the bottom, Suzuki parts all over the place and the driver standing up through the passenger door opening covered in blood. His injuries were minor, slight concussion. The blood was a head wound from him bouncing around inside the cab while this thing end over tumbled. Oh yea..he refused to wear a seat belt, stalled it at the top of the hill and tried to bump start it. He was lucky to live.

[blackZZR]

We were doing hill climb where the entry was a offcamber crossing of a v knotch and then get on it for the climb. I did the climb and decided to go down and spot a few of the newer guys through. Well one guy refused my spot and got on it to soon flipping onto his side in the knotch and wiping out the side of his SUV. It was so obvious he had got on it early and launched his front tire in the air all the time I was trying to get him to slow down.
I decided right there that if I did not know you, you needed someone else to spot you. He tried to sue me and I had to drag several of the guys there that day into court to testify that he was not doing as spotted. The judge was totally confused as why we were even trying an obstacle like that and I think what saved me was the judged told him he was on his own in terrain like that.
Anyway, with friends I know, I will get out and spot, otherwise I just claim to be the worlds worst spotter.
What I am getting at is no matter what you think from looking at the video and wanting to place blame, I think it was the guy who took those two on that trail that is to blame, it is obviously over both their heads in ability and experience.

[Mtbikbob]

But, really, would you go over the edge of something called Heart Attack Hill WITHOUT your seat-belt on?


...Really?






PS: My wife says that she can't believe that anyone runs ANY trails without a seatbeat on.... Just sayin'.[/QUOTE]

Guilty as charged.....

[NAILER341]

I wont move my jeep 10 feet without my belt on. There are just too many things that can go wrong while wheeling to risk it.

If she had her belt on, she likely would have been able to stop the tumble when it got back on its wheels and saved all of the other mess.

No drinking - zero, and always wear your seat belt. Two top rules of the trail.

[itsmy49willys]

man she is so lucky without her seat belt on. She obviously could have been killed. It is important to remember that even with stock seat belts you can still be ejected because of the way that the retractor works and the forces involved in a rollover accident.