Bad spotter, bad driving, and no seatbelt..

[NAILER341]

You must trust your spotter. It is best to know him/her and trust them based on experience rather than trusting them based on "Just the guy pointing".

You also must be able to feel your jeep, and know when to tell the spotter to check himself. It is a two way street.

[Geebo]

X2 on what Erik say,s TRUST is a big part of it..you don,t even have to like the person but if he/she is going to help me thru an obstacle I,m on that!

[blackZZR]

well Eric, that about nails it, so many people do not use feel to wheel, or do they know spotting rules, like not taking a spot, as I said there is no requirement to take a class in either. I have seen a set of standard signals, and a set of standard terms, but yet it seems even those are not universal. It depends on who is teaching, or writing the book/magazine/ article. And that is what I have been trying to say. There is a lot of confusion out there. And a lot of guys who want the glory spot and have not the training. I know guys I trust to spot, but then I do not know if they have taken classes to spot.
how many people reading this thread have taken a course in spotting?
that would be interesting to know, and how many guys who say the spotter was the problem for the accident in the video have taken a class in spotting?
My point is, without proper training standards set up and enforced, you get what you get. I know of no authority agency that has the power or resources to make sure anyone spotting is qualified. Take that for what it is worth, but remember in a hobby that most of it is learned by tire time, we must seem to be very outspoken about something most have never done. That is proper Training and study by professionals.

[troyboy162]

its been nuts how many have pointed at the spotter in this situation. yeah he sucked but that doesn't overshadow her not knowing what she was doing. ultimately she made this happen and it was an awful way to learn how to wheel.

how many of us would continue cross slope after feeling the passenger tire climb? the jeep itself gave her too direct indications of the roll coming and driver did not correct.

i really hate spotting for someone i dont know. some people actually want you to drive there vehicle for them via hand signals. ive got a great video of a gentleman going through the gatekeeper at johnbull. he looks terrified and just locks eyes with his spotter and stops being the "driver" during the entire thing.

[NAILER341]

Spotting can be pretty simple and easy to understand; it can also be a downright mess that is impossible to understand.

In this particular case, with the spotter flailing his hands about, having no discernible direction he is pointing to makes it impossible to know what he wants.

It was at that time the drivers responsibility to call him on it and tell him to get the hell out of the way and let someone they can understand point the way.

I have had good and bad experiences spotting and being spotted.

I am quite selective about who spots me over difficult obstacles. I do try to be 99% committed to what they tell me even when it feels wrong. I know my spotters, and know they wouldn't do anything to hurt me or my rig intentionally.

They might spot me into being stuck for their own sick pleasures, but nothing to intentionally break my jeep or make me cry.

[blackZZR]

i really hate spotting for someone i dont know. some people actually want you to drive there vehicle for them via hand signals. ive got a great video of a gentleman going through the gatekeeper at johnbull. he looks terrified and just locks eyes with his spotter and stops being the "driver" during the entire thing.

I hate to spot period, but do it when needed. The thing about spotting is you have to also know the person you are spotting abilities, I mean spotting someone up the big climb of John Bull? and they lock, well you are going have to get out and spot them on a lot of places on that trail then. Funny thing is when Forest fest goes on, I love to stand on gate keeper and take pics of one of the big groups coming up. and then we high tail it around and climb about half way up the west side and get pictures of them coming down, so many of the guys will state they never want to see another rock in their life. They did it but it takes a while as so many of them need spots at every single rock there is. I guess it is a testament to the Club that does Forest Fest, on their spoting ability to get so many non jeep SUVs through without dents.

[curtis]

Neither one of them should of been on that trail! Driving and spotting take lots of experience. Don't trust anyone spotting for you who doesn't have experience. And don't do trails over your head! IT's like driving a race car, school and lots of experience before you can play with the big boys.

[RAT]

They might spot me into being stuck for their own sick pleasures, but nothing to intentionally break my jeep or make me cry.

Hmmmm, can I think of who this might be???

[NAILER341]

Hmmmm, can I think of who this might be???

I'm sure it is more than one
I'll bet most people that I'd let spot me would do that. LOL

[blackZZR]

Well first flag was his lack of signals.just waving his hans, second was once he put her in the v notch, he stops spotting and walks around the jeep. Looking at the jeep it was not set up for the trail. The drver was doing as spotted. I know it bis a shame, but the blame goes to the guy who told them they could do that trail. The rest is just bad decisions by the guys on the hill

Neither one of them should of been on that trail! Driving and spotting take lots of experience. Don't trust anyone spotting for you who doesn't have experience. And don't do trails over your head! IT's like driving a race car, school and lots of experience before you can play with the big boys.

[snydercj7]

I did not get the whole hand flapping thing. But he was clearly trying to get her to turn passenger @ the top & she was not listening. But why did he direct her driver tire into that hole, why did she keep driving up the bank?

This can be a very intimidating hill. I am not certified, licensed, or a genius.... But it looked like neither of them should have been there. Besides, I thought all Rubi's came with auto pilot & walk through stuff like this.

Really do hope she is ok. Any one have any idea when this happened?

[Roger]

Idea:

How about at the Meet & Greet one of you guys that are an excellent spotter hold a class in the parking lot and go over the basics. Is that do able or would you actually have to be on a trail?

I'm thinking of at least the proper hand signals & termonology.

[Britain]

The picture I posted was an experienced driver. This was his dads jeep. His was rig still up on the hill. Said the gas petal stuck..clutch to auto.....not knowing your vehicle.

That hill will give u the pucker factor...

[blackZZR]

not me, I am not a good spotter, plus I am not professionally trained. But that is what I am getting at, Who sets the rules and regulates this? You see calling that spotter wrong is a bunch of bunk, he ws doing just as many have done, getting out there and trying to spot, and unless you are professionally trained. you are in his shoes as you have no formal training. At one point in your spotting career you were as dangerous as him in knowledge.
So do we blame the spotter, the driver, or the guy who told them they could do that trail?

[Materdaddy]

You must trust your spotter. It is best to know him/her and trust them based on experience rather than trusting them based on "Just the guy pointing".

You also must be able to feel your jeep, and know when to tell the spotter to check himself. It is a two way street.

Knowing/Trusting your spotter is key. I trust only a few people to spot me. Second key is knowing when you're in over your head and either ignoring your spotter, or letting them know of something you think they might not be realizing. In the case of this roll, letting the spotter know "uhhhh... you sure? my tire seems to be climbing this hill laterally and putting a strange lean on my rig." Whether your spotter sees it and is taking it into account, it doesn't matter, you as a driver should let them know, in case they missed something.

I still remember one instance of this exactly. I started up an obstacle on Bullfrog. I didn't ask for a spotter, but somebody kindly started giving spotting directions when I stopped advancing on the obstacle. (For the record, the person is one of the few people I'd trust ANY DAY OF THE WEEK to spot me).
[sized]http://jeep.matandtiff.com/files/2009/03/bullfrogjeeprun178.jpg[/sized]

As I went forward, I felt my rear passenger tire going into a hole which I felt was going to make my Jeep do a stand on my spare tire. I wasn't sure if the spotter could see that because he said "keep coming, you're fine". I simply told him I could feel the rear passenger tire falling into a hole and was going to try something else. No harm no fowl.
[sized]http://jeep.matandtiff.com/files/2009/03/bullfrogjeeprun180.jpg[/sized]

I knew I was pretty close to going over backward because of how the Jeep felt and reacted to any movement, so I backed up a bit, changed my angle just enough that my rear passenger missed the hole it was falling into, and walked right up.
[sized]http://jeep.matandtiff.com/files/2009/03/img_6778.jpg[/sized]

Since I didn't keep going, I don't know if it would have done the 'stand', but driver plays a big role in getting safely through tough trails.

So, as some people have said, the spotter in this roll sucked. But to me, the driver better not place all the blame on him because they should have asked for another spotter, or taken the signs from the Jeep when they were climbing up that wall which put them into the roll. Sad situation for the people involved, and all of us armchair spotters/web wheelers critiquing a mistake. Hopefully the driver makes a full and speedy recovery!