Trail Rating definitions

[headhunter]

Christian,

I've got a new scale that I've been using:

* Dirt Road / Can be fun and can also get you to more of the fun places.

**Trail With Big Rocks / Even more fun, if there is a lot of loud banging sounds from slamming on the rocks, might be really fun!

***Trail You Get Stuck On / Extreme fun! Keep trying or start the upgrade process (just empty every pocket).

Lets go wheeling!!!!!!!!!!!

Mitch

Nice! It's that Just Empty Every Pocket upgrade process I'd like to minimize.

Christian

[headhunter]

I used to have problems with all the different systems also, but now prefer the 3 teir system, green is for stock, blue is for high clearance, and black is for big tires and traction control. Simple to understand to me.

The 3 tier system worked well for me with skiing.

I'd start with all of the blue runs and when I felt comfortable on those I'd start with the green runs and then the black diamonds, etc.

In skiing, if I got on something over my head within a particular range I could sideslip down the hill or walk if I really had to. The top end of the skiing range of difficulty was a bit more like four wheeling where damage could be costly. Of course, that was medical bills vs vehicle carnage. I had my share of injuries on the tougher ski runs, but luckily never had to be hauled down in a basket.

So, even with skiing, I preferred more than a 3 tier system where we had single, double and triple black diamonds. I might do single black diamonds at the beginning of the season, but wait until later in the season before doing the triple black diamonds. This could be due to a need for polishing some rusty skills or a need for increasing my level of fitness since the last time on skiis.

With 4-wheeling the 3 tier system doesn't seem to work as well for me beyond the green trails. The blue trails can really start substantially banging up a vehicle. Of course, you can avoid a lot of that damage by upgrading some things before taking it up a notch.

In my mind, there is a huge difference between the bottom end of blue and the top end of blue. In the three tiers mentioned above, I'm guessing that a vast difference doesn't come into play until you get to black where big tires and traction control come into the picture. I'd be including a lot of those black runs as blue runs in a more comprehensive system. That's where big tires to some could be 33" tires, but others think that big tires are anything over 40" tires. I'm just looking to quantify those differences.

A comprehensive system could help in planning upgrades.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to upgrades. The first is one where you leave things as they are until you break them and then replace them with something stronger. The second one is where you upgrade things before you need to and use your old parts as spares (when applicable).

I'm not saying that one is right and the other wrong. They are just different ways of winding up in the same place. For me, it's more enjoyable to upgrade first and use the old parts as spares.

What I'm writing here might make it sound like I'm actually scared of everything out there or trying to factor everything into a run before I go out, but that's not the case. I think that people that have been out with me know I'm up for a challenge, but that I'm cautious. I'm just looking for "bands of difficulty" with some gradients within each band. The "bands" could actually be a 3 tier system with more detail within each band.

I just like to choose my challenges by keeping them within the range that I can afford to fix at the time as dictated by the funds available in the bank.

This also has to do with people's basic personality styles, which includes how they think through challenges.

As a project manager, I tend to think a lot about risk analysis and planning to mitigate that risk. I imagine that there are others that think this way, so a comprehensive system of trail rating is for those people. It's a tool for those who think that this planning process is part of the "fun" of 4-wheeling.

For some, the adventure is in NOT knowing. That becomes the "fun" in 4-wheeling for some people. There are times when I'm in that camp.

For me, which camp I'm in is usually a function of what I can afford to fix at that particular time. It's more like "what mood" I'm in.

I'd better stop right here. I think that I'm already in danger of having written a book in this one post. :geek:

Christian

[blackZZR]

Well guys
for 2 years I had a website called Adventure 4x4, we specialized into getting new wheelers up to speed quick, how we did it was take them over a lot of medium trails, and once they were ready told them that a black trail was just a blue trail with bigger obstacles, guess what, most of those guys take 4x4s that we jeepers frown at, across the same trails we do. It is not a matter of getting people onto a trail harder than they want because we use a overly complicated trail rating system, I mean lets just make it a scale of 20 so we can divide it even more. But it is a matter of getting them to trust themselves and to learn to take a spot without questioning it till they learn a good spot from a bad.

[headhunter]

Well guys
for 2 years I had a website called Adventure 4x4, we specialized into getting new wheelers up to speed quick, how we did it was take them over a lot of medium trails, and once they were ready told them that a black trail was just a blue trail with bigger obstacles, guess what, most of those guys take 4x4s that we jeepers frown at, across the same trails we do. It is not a matter of getting people onto a trail harder than they want because we use a overly complicated trail rating system, I mean lets just make it a scale of 20 so we can divide it even more. But it is a matter of getting them to trust themselves and to learn to take a spot without questioning it till they learn a good spot from a bad.

Hey Jim,

I appreciate your input.

What you are talking about here is having a good mentoring system.

We're in agreement that a good mentoring system is more important than a trail rating system for getting people the experience and confidence they need for tackling harder trails.

This method has worked very well for many people in scuba diving. It depends on having people who are able and willing to serve as mentors.

What I'm talking about in this thread is a system that can (in the absence of a mentor) give people enough of a feel for what's on a trail to keep them from going beyond their ability. We have books that do a fairly good job of that, but I think one has to get used to that author's system before it becomes useful. Any system we come up with would be no different.

Maybe you are right and your 3 tier system is enough. I've got to trust your experience on that one, since I'm not very advanced yet. I do believe in the KISS method where it can be used.

At my level, I think your system would be enough to keep me out of trouble as long as I've classified my vehicle properly.

Based on some of the trails I've run by reading books like the ones by Charles Wells and Roger Mitchell, I think my bone stock CJ-8 is considered "high clearance," but not in the category of "bigger tires and traction control." What would you consider "high cleareance" to be in your system?

As a novice, I always find myself looking for more info. I've got to admit that most of what I've been on has been easier than I expected it would be (including some of the black diamond trails in Well's and Mitchell's books).

I've been out on a couple of trails that have been just beyond the limit of what my Jeep should have been on, but I got out with only minor body damage. That's still well within my expectations.

By trusting the advice of the people I've gone out with, it has kept me from getting into too much trouble. So, if someone knows who to ask that can match their ability and vehicle up to a particular trail, that's great!

I was interested in coming up with a guide that would help people in the absence of knowing who to ask. Lot's of those surfing the Net would fall into this category after buying their first 4-wheel drive.

In 2010, I'm thinking about going to some places in Northern/Central California, Colorado and Utah. Is there someplace on the Internet where can I find a listing of trails in various other regions that use the same 3 tier system?

Having the same system to refer to would allow me to see where I fall in the system on local trails and help me decide which trails to try in other regions.

By the way, I look foward to being able to go out wheeling with you sometime, if you're open to it.

Thanks.

Christian

[blackZZR]

Well all that is noble, such as a standard system and books on trails. I think we all could do that book.
But looking at it and realizing why the system will always boil down to a 3 or 4 tiered system, is because once you get a bit of experience, so do you. What I mean by that is to a beginner there is new obstacles at every corner, once doing it a while you break it down to: easy, can be done with out 4x4
medium, needs 4x4 but no traction control;
hard, needs traction control and we could ad extreme as also guarantee body carnage.
I agree as a new guy you want so much more, but give it a while and you will see this makes sense. I would hate to have a 10 or 12 point guide and try to decide which category to put a trail in when trails change every day.(Look at Cleghorn between gradings, it can be to simple to knarly, but it is always easy.
By the way, am about to have a 4x4 going again, we can wheel soon.

[headhunter]

I just saw this 9 point Trail Rating System referenced in a run that was posted.

http://www.nwtoys.com/reference/trail-rating

2WD:

[COLOR="Green"]1.0 All-weather high speed paved or graded dirt or gravel road, regularly maintained, with excellent drainage. 4WD not needed, even in wet weather. Speeds of over 40 mph can be achieved. Passenger cars/Rav4 type vehicles acceptable.

1.5 Maintained graded dirt road. 4WD not needed except in wet weather. May have potholes, dips, and sharp curves. May drain poorly in wet weather. Speeds of over 10 mph possible. Passenger cars/Rav4 type vehicles can do, but will have to slow down considerably on washouts, etc., due to lack of ground clearance. No grades over 10 degrees.[/COLOR]


EASY 4WD:

[COLOR="Purple"]2.0 Unimproved or rarely graded dirt road; 4WD and/or extra clearance occasionally needed at times, with no special driving skills required. Passenger cars NOT acceptable, due to insufficient ground clearance. 2WD & 4WD trucks with stock clearance are acceptable. Street tires are acceptable. Day runs are typically 20 miles in length.

2.5 Dirt road graded rarely, if ever. 4WD low range and good clearance often needed, with some extra care and a bit of driving experience useful. Suitable for novice drivers. Speeds often under 10 mph. Street tires are acceptable. 2WD trucks NOT acceptable, due to lack of low range gears. No grades over 20 degrees.[/COLOR]


MODERATE 4WD:

[COLOR="Blue"]3.0 Ungraded road in difficult terrain, rarely maintained. 4WD low range and clearance required, with some driving skill and daring useful. Challenges for novice driver. Suitable for stock 4WD vehicles. Street tires are not recommended. No 2WD vehicles due to lack of traction. Speeds often under 5 MPH.

3.5 Road or trail in difficult terrain, probably maintained only by occasional users. Considerable driving skill and daring needed. Not recommended for the novice driver. Surface may include wash beds, sand, cinders, lava rock, snow, mud, water, etc. Vehicles with long front or rear overhang (beyond the axles) may scrape front or rear bumpers on wash crossings, etc. Street tires not acceptable. Approaching the limit of what a capable stock 4WD vehicle (with capable driver) can do. Stock 4WD vehicles usually not recommended. Upgrade to 31" tires, mild lift (1" or 2"), and rear locker or limited slip is highly desirable. Equipment failure is usually limited to flat tires. Grades may exceed 20 degrees. Occasional off camber situation may exceed 20 degrees. Water crossings should be 2 feet or less in depth. Spotting may be required on the more difficult sections, especially for long, wide vehicles. Average speed is 3 mph. A day run is typically around 10 miles in length. This is the most common numerical rating given to 4WD trails. Suitable for mildly modified 4WD vehicles & moderately experienced drivers.[/COLOR]


Difficult 4WD:

[COLOR="Red"]4.0 Trail badly eroded. Off camber situations likely and may exceed 25 degrees. Grades may exceed 25 degrees. Water crossings can exceed 2 feet in depth. Stock vehicles NOT recommended. 31" tires minimum, (33" preferred), mild lift & hard locker, (not limited slip), in the rear probably required. Front locker or limited slip recommended. Speeds often under 3 mph. Spotting probably required on the more difficult obstacles to avoid body damage. Recommended for experienced 4WD drivers only. Body damage possible, but unlikely. More likely on long, and/or wide vehicles. Equipment failure possible, but unlikely.

4.5 Trail is TOUGH. Big rocks, grades exceeding 30 degrees. Off camber situations exceeding 30 degrees. Sometimes, but not always, best suited for short wheel base vehicles. (under 105" wheelbase) 33" tires minimum, (35" or larger preferred). 2" to 4" of lift and gearing of 40 to 1 (20 to 1 for automatics) or lower in first gear, low range probably required. Hard locker in the rear and limited slip or hard locker in the front probably required. Speeds often under 1 mph. A day run will usually be 1-3 miles in length. Body damage likely, but usually can be avoided by very careful driving and good spotting. Typically 10% of the vehicles on these runs will experience major mechanical failure, i.e., drive line or steering failure. (u-joints, axles, pitman arm, drag link, tie rods, etc.) Usually, but not always, these failures are due to improper and insufficiently tested vehicle modifications or poor (sloppy) driving technique. (Too much gas or steering pressure) An experienced driver with a properly setup vehicle can usually avoid most breakage.[/COLOR]


Extreme 4WD:

5.0 Trail CANNOT be driven the whole way. Winching is required in at least one point on the trail. Water crossings may exceed 2-½ feet in depth. Grades exceeding 40 degrees. The biggest rocks with off camber situations exceeding 35 degrees. Rollovers possible. Usually only suitable for short wheel base vehicles (under 105" wheelbase), winch, 33" minimum tires, (35" or larger preferred), 3" to 5" of lift, gearing of 60 to 1 (30 to 1 for automatics) or lower in first gear, low range, and hard locker in both front and rear axles probably required. Axle upgrades highly recommended. Speed continuously under one mph. A day run is typically one mile in length. These trails are typically very hard on tires. One spare probably required, two spares recommended. Plug kit and/or tubes recommended. Tires with sufficient sidewall protection (Boggers, Swampers, etc.) recommended. 50% or greater chance of body damage. 50% or greater chance of major mechanical failure. Breakage is usually due to excessive torque or torque spikes on axles or steering components. Only experienced (5 years +) drivers with extra money, parts & energy to repair broken vehicles need apply.

It has elements to it that seem to apply across the spectrum of wheeling, which include % of steepness or off camber, depth of water, type of vehicle, length of wheelbase and rear overhang, lift, size and type of tires, 4WD vs. 2WD, gearing, lockers, spotting needs, experience and skill of driver, probability of body damage and mechanical failure, road maintenance or lack thereof, weather, typical speeds and distances of travel.

For all of the elements it includes it's still simple to understand.

For instance, this year's Stocker run for the annual MJR weekend in Calico would be accurately rated at 2.5 on this scale.

I just thought I'd continue to add to this thread as a repository for systems that seem to work well.

Christian