Trail Rating definitions

[headhunter]

I couldn't figure out where is was most appropriate to post this, so I put it here.

Moderators, please feel free to move this to a more appropriate location as you see fit.

I think I remember reading about the MJR trail rating system somewhere, but can't find it. I did a search, but didn't really come up with what I was looking for.

What is the definition of Easy, Moderate and Difficult for the purposes of using the rating system on MJR to post runs or reports?

Thanks.

Christian

[dirtman13]

Christian,

They should follow the USFS.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardin...fficulty.shtml

[Mitch]

Christian,

Keep in mind that the USFS rating's are very generic. If you have a concern post up a trail # & name and get some advice. Most of all check with people that you run with and trust cause everyones rating is subjective. Oh yeah....Have a lot of fun.

Mitch

[headhunter]

Christian,

They should follow the USFS.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardin...fficulty.shtml

That must have been the page that I was remembering. I remember the picture and for some reason thought it was on this site.

I'm quoting the definitions here to make it easier for others reading this to comment without having to follow the link.

Trails are rated using a standard system in use throughout the recreation industry. Ratings are assigned under ideal conditions, and are based on difficulty compared to other routes in the area. A trail rated easy by local standards could possibly be rated moderate or even difficult elsewhere. Conditions are always subject to change due to weather and other acts of nature.

[COLOR="Green"](Easy)[/COLOR] These routes are appropriate for novice through advanced users. They generally follow obvious, well-marked trails and roads. Grades are gentle, and few obstacles will be encountered.

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"](More Difficult)[/COLOR] These routes are appropriate for intermediate through advanced users. Terrain may be steeper, trails narrower, and some obstacles may be encountered.

(Most Difficult) These routes are recommended for advanced to expert users only. Terrain is steep, and routes are not well marked. You should have considerable skill in your chosen activity, as well as knowledge of navigation and survival before attempting these trails.

It's unfortunate that these descriptions only compare runs to each other in a region instead of using a more definitive way of rating the trails that isn't completely subjective.

In my opinion, it would be more helpful to have a system that could apply some sort of standard to The Rubicon, The Hammers, Gold Mountain, Cakewalk, The Miller Jeep Trail, Jacoby Canyon, Etc.

I know I saw something somewhere that I thought was a "useful" system. I've actually run across a couple that refer to the size of rocks, distance of drops on shelves, how off camber a trail gets and depth of water. I'll have to find that and post it.

Thanks for pointing me to that.

Christian

[dirtman13]

Christian,

Keep in mind that those are for the USFS only. Some of the trails you listed are on BLM land which is under different managment.

[headhunter]

Christian,

Keep in mind that the USFS rating's are very generic. If you have a concern post up a trail # & name and get some advice. Most of all check with people that you run with and trust cause everyones rating is subjective. Oh yeah....Have a lot of fun.

Mitch

I'm a fan of generic, but descriptive systems that help compare things across regions.

This helps people who are traveling to an area compare something to what they are already familiar with.

For instance, I plan to go to Moab and Colorado in 2010 and would like to have a system that would allow me to compare those trails to those that I'm already familiar with. It just becomes part of the planning process for someone.

I also understand that the rating on a trail can change over time based on use, maintenance (or lack thereof) and weather that the trail has been subjected to.

Therefore, I think that checking with people you know and trust for advice (as you have recommended) is always the final step in planning.

Thanks.

Christian

[headhunter]

Christian,

Keep in mind that those are for the USFS only. Some of the trails you listed are on BLM land which is under different managment.

Chuck,

That's a very good point.

However, when a run is posted on MJR it could be in a USFS or BLM area. In fact, I'm guessing that in some instances, a run on private property could be posted.

I'm just looking for a utilitarian system that puts everything on the same playing field.

I know that it's a tall order, but I tend to like tools that take some of the guesswork out of the planning process.

Christian

[JeepGal]

Sarah compiled this a while back- It should help.

http://www.myjeeprocks.com/reports/faq/

Tam

[headhunter]

Sarah compiled this a while back- It should help.

http://www.myjeeprocks.com/reports/faq/

Tam

Hey Tammy,

That's exactly the type of system that I was looking for!

For people's convenience, I'm posting below the trail rating part of what was compiled by Sarah on that page, but there is a lot of other good info there as well.

If even one small section of the trail rates a black diamond rating, then the whole trail gets the rating.

Green Circle; Easiest
Mild rocky road, usually graded once a year.
Gentle grades, no significant water crossings.
Two wheel drive is usually acceptable with good ground clearance.
Four wheel drive makes the trip safer and there will be less tire spinning.

Blue Square; More Difficult
Rutted and rocky roads, careful tire placement is necessary.
Undercarriage may occasionaly scrape. Brush may scrape vehicle.
Some grades may be fairly steep.
Water crossings may be 2′-3′ deep.
Four wheel drive with 2 speed transfer case, high clearance, low air pressure,
and some experience driving off road is best.
Typical setup would be 31’s and 2"-4" of lift.

Black Diamond; Most Difficult
Rock gardens and deeply rutted roads.
Grades can be steep with severe ground undulation.
Sideways tilt can be extreme.
Body damage is a possibility.
A locker or limited slip in a differential makes the drive safer.
Typical setup would be 33’s and 4"-6" of lift.
Body armor is highly recommended.

I think that most folks would agree that none of the trails in Big Bear qualify as extreme.

Thanks!

Christian

[headhunter]

This is what I'm talking about...

I found the more complex rating system that I was thinking about by looking through my bookmarks for different sites and clicking around a bit. It is posted at http://www.4x4trails.net/forums/memb...action=ratings.

This fits into the idea of Easy ([COLOR="Green"]Green Circle[/COLOR]), More Difficult ([COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Blue Square[/COLOR]) and Most Difficult (Black Diamond) trails. It then goes one step beyond that and uses numbers for a more specific rating within each of the 3 ranges. Actually, it may be more accurate to say it adds a 4th range for Extreme (Double Black Diamond).

The Easy range is carefully broken into 4 ratings. I think that people with a stock Jeep or those new to 4-wheeling appreciate this breakdown. To a degree it removes some of the apprehension and helps to avoid "surprises."

For instance, I know that with this level of detail in the description, I would be comfortable taking my bone-stock Scrambler (when it's running perfectly) on up to a "7" on this scale. If it was running rough (as it is now) or I had some new untested part, I would stick to a "6" or lower.

To illustrate further by taking a page from my own ancient history, I often had my old '78 CJ7 with a 1" shackle lift and 31" tires on a "9" on this scale. I consequently sunk it in water too deep and rolled it on a hill that was too steep. I was OK with that, because I knew it could happen before I went out. I "planned" for it.

The rest of the 3 more advanced ranges are only broken into 2 ratings each. I think that's easy for most people to conceptualize. I believe it's quite logical.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Graded dirt road. Dry, or less than 3" water crossing depth. Gentle grades. 2WD under all conditions except snow. No width problems, two vehicles wide.

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Dirt road. Dry, or less than 3" water crossing depth. Some ruts. Slight grades, up to 10 degrees. 2WD under most conditions. Rain or snow may make 4WD necessary. Usually one and a half to two vehicles wide.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Dirt road. Rutted, washes, or gulches. Water crossings up to 6" depth. Passable mud. Grades up to 10 degrees. Small rocks or holes. 4WD recommended but 2WD possible under good conditions and with adequate ground clearance and skill. No width problems for any normal vehicle. Vehicle passing spots frequently available if less than two vehicles wide.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Rutted and/or rocky road. No shelves but rocks to 9". Water crossings usually less than hub deep. Passable mud. Grades moderate, up to 15 degrees. Side hill moderate up to 15 degrees. 4WD under most conditions. No width problems, vehicle passing spots frequently available if less than two vehicles wide.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Rutted and/or rocky road. No shelves. Rocks up to 12" and water crossings up to 12" with possible currents. Passable mud. Moderate grades to 15 degrees. 6" holes. Side hill to 20 degrees. 4WD required. No width problems.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Quite rocky or deep ruts. Rocks to 12" and frequent. Water crossings may exceed hub depth with strong currents. Shelves to 6". Mud may require checking before proceeding. Moderate grades to 20 degrees. Sidehill may approach 30 degrees. 4WD necessary and second attempts may be required with stock vehicles. Caution may be required with wider vehicles.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Rocks frequent and large, 12" and may exceed hub height. Holes frequent or deep (12"). Shelves to 9". Mud 8" deep and may be present on uphill sections. Grades to 25 degrees and sidehill to 30 degrees. Water crossings to 18" and may have strong currents. 1-1/2 vehicles wide. 4WD required. Driver experience helpful.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Heavy rock and/or severe ruts. Rocks exceeding hub height frequent. Shelves to 12". Deep mud or uphill mud sections. Steep grades to 25 degrees and can be loose or rocky. Water crossings may exceed 30" in depth. Side hill to 30 degrees. One vehicle wide. Body damage possible. Experience needed. Vehicle Modifications helpful.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Severe rock over 15". Frequent deep holes over 15". Shelves over 15". Mud bog conditions (long, deep, no form bottom). Over 30" water crossings with strong currents. Steep grades over 30 degrees. Sidehill over 30 degrees. May not be passable by stock vehicles. Experience essential. Body damage, mechanical breakdown, rollover probable. Extreme caution required.

[COLOR="royalblue"]Rating:[/COLOR]
Severe conditions. Extreme caution recommended. Impassable by stock vehicles. Winching required. Trail building necessary. May be impassable. Impassable under anything but ideal conditions. Vehicle damage probable. Personal injury possible. Extreme caution necessary.

I personally like a system with this sort of detail and could see using it for describing trails from any area.

I also like it because it would be easy to create maps using these icons along with color coding the route as part of the map's legend.

Does anyone else like this?

Christian

[Old Fart]

Sarah compiled this a while back- It should help.

http://www.myjeeprocks.com/reports/faq/

Tam

Hmm, some of that looks familiar.....

[Mitch]

Thanks Tam,

That is a good starting point and has better descriptions.


Christian,

Back on my point:

John Bull fits the MJR description for a Black Diamond.

Heartbreak Ridge barely fits in the MJR Blue Square description but is reated Black Diamond by the SBNF.

Rattlesnake Canyon is rated Black Diamond on the SBNF scale, but is truely an easy trail as listed by the MJR description.

3 Black Diamond trails that have nothing in common trail wise and could be rated 3 different levels.

Ask a friend that will give you the real scoop. And as everyone here knows, I've taken a long time with the baby steps thing so I'm extra cautious with ratings.

Mitch

[Mitch]

Christian,

I also like the 1 - 10 scale. It has some more detail.

Mitch

[headhunter]

<snip>
Christian,

Back on my point:

John Bull fits the MJR description for a Black Diamond.

Heartbreak Ridge barely fits in the MJR Blue Square description but is reated Black Diamond by the SBNF.

Rattlesnake Canyon is rated Black Diamond on the SBNF scale, but is truely an easy trail as listed by the MJR description.

3 Black Diamond trails that have nothing in common trail wise and could be rated 3 different levels.

Ask a friend that will give you the real scoop. And as everyone here knows, I've taken a long time with the baby steps thing so I'm extra cautious with ratings.

Mitch

Mitch,

Your point and my point go hand-in-hand.

Since the SBNF descriptions are so broad, they don't really give someone a sense of what to expect. So, you have to ask someone who knows to even get close to what you're in for. If it's a person's first day on MJR they won't know who to ask, but if there is a somewhat accurate system to describe these trails it gives someone a place to "get started" with their research.

I would like to be able to plan a run for 1 or more days by using a scale that is generally accurate and then have someone who has specific familiarity with those trails (and whom I trust) review my plan as a sanity check.

It allows the planning process to take place when considering dozens of routes before talking to someone about it.

Of course, if someone is already familiar with all of the routes in question, the ratings are unnecessary for that person to conduct their planning session.

It would be nice to build a database of well rated trails here on MJR for Colorado, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and California to include The Eastern Sierras, Death Valley, the various National Forests, BLM areas and others. I'm only referencing the Southwest, because that's what I'm mostly interested in at this time. It could be international in scope.

If a basic system like that were in place, then people could contribute to it with video, still photography, GPS tracks, more detailed descriptions of individual campsites and more.

That's all I'm getting at.

Christian

[Mike]

Not enough points!

I really like the 10 point system, but it is too mild throughout the range in my opinion. The 10 rating seems to be an "and everything else" category, but the 9 rating is not beyond the capacity of a reasonably lifted Jeep. I did trails that fit the description of a 9 with one locker, a 2" lift, and 31' tires.

By this definition, Dishpan Springs is a 9! What does that make the Hammers? Parts of the Rubicon has rocks that are 24 to 30 inches and ledges of that height or more.

I like this wider range, but it seems to have limitations in how it is defined. The width of the trail especially gets to me. I've been on trails that are barely wide enough to fit the Jeep that I would rate as a 2 by the rest of the description.


I'm glad that you started this thread Headhunter, because this has been an annoying part of researching trails for me as well.

Everyone has their special fear on the trails. For example, I have noticed that the Charles Wells books seem to put a higher emphasis on steepness and height than I personally put for the same obstacles.

I think that I would rather have a system that tells me what to expect on the trail, somewhat like the 1 to 10 system that you found. I just think that the posted system is too shallow for the trails that I have driven.

So let me ask this, what does everyone want to know about a trail before you are willing to attempt it? Be specific, "is it hard" is what I want to try to define.