long or short

[Drewminator]

The main disadvantage of longs arms have traditionally been much higher cost in terms of the components and installation. Many kits require exhaust mods too and cut and do away with stock mounts requiring cutting (obviously) and welding in some cases.

Otherwise, they have much better on-road manners for daily driver type rigs, especially at the higher lifts. This is because the axle moves on a much less circular fashion than with short arms.

The other "problem" that you usually hear about long arms is that the arms themselves hang lower and are more exposed than short arm arms. For me, this hasn't really been a problem. However, if that's a big concern, you can take a look at the new n-th degree long arms. They have a very sweet setup with the long arms bent out of the way and tucked up in the frame.

So which lift should you go with? I guess it really depends. I drive mine very long distances (Midwest to West Coast and Moab etc) so in addition to offroad performance, I was very concerned with drivability. I can confidently say my jeep rides better on the freeway with the 6" long arms, 35's, and 9-way adjustable rancho shocks than it did with the stock rubicon setup (well, ok the crossover steering also helped a lot!). Now getting it up to speed with the stock 4.10 gears is a different issue however But I've never had a speeding ticket in the jeep either

Seapahn, your insight is much appreciated. So, LA vs., SA in question? you are saying that the LA is a better setup for daily driving and long distance adventures but cost more $$, but both LA & SA are equally that same when its off-road time, except, that the SA has a less chance of grabbing onto one of mother natures finest rocks or what not, and cost less $$?

Drew-

[seapahn]

Opinions will differ on the topic. But in general (it still varies by how well a suspension is installed, tuned, quality of components etc), but in general, all else being the same, long arms are superior in terms of on-road handling.

Offroad, when you are crawling slow speed, in my opinion either short or long is fine ... long arms could allow for more flex since the angles at the arms are less severe compared to short arms ... but usually both kits flex more than enough, with the shock and coils becoming the limits of flex. People do things like coil-overs, or get extra long shocks, and other mods to get crazy flexing out of either type of kit that I have seen.

But the brief summary you have I do agree with ... SA cheaper and less chance of banging the arms into rocks (you rarely get hung up on them if you have lockers) ... usually with mine, it's the t-case skid that gets me stuck. SAs are also a lot easier to install and are a lot more bolt-on that long-arms.

If you ask me, I'd say if $$$ is a concern and you are looking to do a mild lift, go with short arms but be aware that you might regret it and want to switch to long arms later. If $$$ is not that big a concern and you want a big lift (5+"), then go with long arms to begin with. I don't know too many that have done long arms and then regretted it later ... however, if you are going to do long arms, I would suggest having it done by someone (or a shop) that really knows what he is doing. In addition to installing, dialing in the suspension and getting all the bugs worked out is crucial.

[blkTJ]

I don't know too many that have done long arms and then regretted it later ...

I guess that means you know some.

anyway... good info seapahn, not anything there I would disagree with.

personally, there isn't an "out of the box" long arm kit I would switch to at the moment. I have very specific needs and value all the departure, approach and belly skid clearance I can get. :yay:

[seapahn]

I guess that means you know some.

Well, it's usually in the form of outgrowing the cookie-cutter lift kits available for standard platforms and moving to fully custom setups. I remember the time I was ecstatic about my 92 IFS S10-blazer with open diffs and 3.43 gears ... then I outgrew that and got me the the ZR2 with the locker and 3.73 gears and 31s ... then soon enough that didn't cut it anymore and I moved on to the Rubicon ... now the big lift and 35s.

But I think that's it for me as far as wheeling rigs. I am pretty much borderline having to trailer the jeep and I have told myself I would stop this progression at the moment the rig starts becoming un-roadable

On the plus side, I got my bank account balance (or lack thereof) to keep me in check with this rule

[blkTJ]

Well, it's usually in the form of outgrowing the cookie-cutter lift kits available for standard platforms and moving to fully custom setups. I remember the time I was ecstatic about my 92 IFS S10-blazer with open diffs and 3.43 gears ... then I outgrew that and got me the the ZR2 with the locker and 3.73 gears and 31s ... then soon enough that didn't cut it anymore and I moved on to the Rubicon ... now the big lift and 35s.

I hope your not implying that I like my short arm kit because I don't know any better.

[blkTJ]

alright, alright... I promise to try to be a little less sensitive about suspensions.

[cjdirtbiker]

Well, since it's getting interesting now...

I'd just like to throw in a few points that may or may not have been really touched on.

I have what is considered to be one of the best SA setups available = Currie. That said, let it be known that I'm not married to them and would switch to something else if it could be shown to be much better. My jeep rides good with some gear in it and the Currie product is hell for stout. I did bend one on the Rubicon, and the joints squeak. I can't seem to get grease into them with much success. The Currie Kit runs about 2 grand, and the RE is about $1800 (give or take a bit).

I understand that a long arm has a smoother arc in suspension travel and therefore is purported to be a little less choppy. But for on-road use, the suspension travels very little, so I'm not sure about the validity of that argument. I think more importantly it's the angle of the arm: a short arm on a tall lift is at much less than perpendicular to axle movement, and that's what can cause a more choppy ride. But as far as flex goes, the pro's admit there's really not a big advantage. You can only flex as much as your bumpstops or shock length will allow. And if there's no pressure on the spring, (too long of a shock) then there's no pressure on the tire to give it traction so it really doesn't accomplish anything.

IMHO a short arm works fine up to about 4" to 4 1/2" of spring lift. More than that and there's just too much drop in the arms and it throws the geometry of the whole setup off. The spring perches get all out of whack, it's just a mess under there. However, 4-4.5" plus 1" of body lift runs 35" tires quite well and I've been quite satisfied with how that works. It's certainly light-years ahead of stock!! Plus it's about half the cost of a comparable long arm setup. Nth Degree is even more.

Now, for a more aggressive approach to wheeling, like bigger tires yet - 37" and on up, 5" or more of lift is required and then the long arm is the only way to go. I just don't see how you could reasonably spread the suspension out that much without getting a longer arc to the axle movement. I suppose you could carve out the wheel wells a bunch and fit 37's on, but the really aggressive wheelers are moving on up to 40" and beyond. Be prepared to spend STUPID amounts of money as the rest of the components need to be beefed up to handle the giant tires and the resultant stresses they would create.

Hope this makes sense.
---Chris Brown

[Dukes69]

stay home.

X2.

:2:

[blackZZR]

CJ, I have to agree with most of what you stated, but would like to interject a few things here
onroad the reason it feels softer is because you are using a huge lever (long arm) to compress the shock, so the shock rate feels softer
and a longer armwill flex more asorbing the road more
however in a emergendy brakeing situation, it also will allow more nose dive for the same reasons
the only advantage I can see to the long arms is offroad, and then only after 4 inches or more of lift, in this situation they will let the driveline bind be less as the axle does not have to overcome the amount of climb of the angle of the arm going down, however the negative aspects of the arms flex and the arm being where it is being used as a catchall to rocks makes me think that benefit is cancelled out.
Now I watch a bunch of rigs, and will say, a nicely tuned short arm system seems to be a much more stable platform to wheel.
I run the nth degree rear stinger system, short arm. see no reason to go long arm with it, the end of the year will see me changeing out the front system, It is a teraflex system and I am studying several systems to see what I think is best. I don't know, I cannot leave anything alone. By the time I finish with the rig I will have thrown out more than most investin a lift.
I also cannot see why people go with tires so big theyhave to beef a rig up to titanic standards, kinda takes the fun out of wheeling, but then a few guys here think I run to small of tires, sheesh guys, it only takes me longer, I still get there

[Britain]

I have along arm. The axel pumpkin still is the major hold up. The long arms do cause problems hanging onto rocks. The Nth deg has a great looking set-up.
As what most have to say on long arms is that its sort of like a boat they "wallow" side to side because of the springs. It is important to get a good sway bar system to stablize that. In off camber trails or rocks they are awfull with out something to control them......

[stegmst]

Nth Long arm IMO.

[Brice]

CJ, I have to agree with most of what you stated, but would like to interject a few things here
onroad the reason it feels softer is because you are using a huge lever (long arm) to compress the shock, so the shock rate feels softer
and a longer armwill flex more asorbing the road more

shock and spring are at a 1:1 with the wheel no matter it be a SA or LA design...good try tho


A LA system doesnt flex more if nothing is binding(on the SA setup). that all depends on the spring rate/length of spring/shock.


LA rides better due to the angle of the control arms relative to the path of suspension travel.