Leafs on a TJ

[nagal]

So sarah really needs a crazy idea icon but after a little research I guess my idea is not so crazy.

You see I have a hour drive to work every morning that lets my brain think of all kinds of crazy stuff. So seeing a brand new Ford F350 on leafs, my brain started thinking. Yeah, dangerous, I know.

So why not put leafs on a TJ? Leafs seem simplier to maintain, less issues "dailing" in the suspension. Should not be difficult to fab up mounts. A TJ with short arms and 5" of coil lift does not ride that smooth, so that should not be an issue. A loss of some flex but flex is not everything.

Is this something I would ever do? Who knows, lots of stuff I think up never goes anywhere. I just thought it would be interesting to get some peoples intakes on this and get some tech going.

To anyone that says "Just get a YJ". Thats not the point of this and yes I would have done that from the beginning if I knew what I know now.

[sarah]

i have a feeling this is going to turn into a good debate!

[nagal]

i have a feeling this is going to turn into a good debate!

I would love to see a "good" debate, thats was part of why I posted it

[locked94yj]

I was out playing around johnson valley and I saw a tj with leafs in the rear and coils in the front. I talked to the guy for a little bit and the reasoning behind it was it keeps both the rear wheels level. Doesn't make sense but after further probing he ment to say it reduces drop of the rear wheels to help climb out of holes. When your driving along and one of your tires falls into a whole, with coil springs, your tire falls all the way to the bottom of the whole wich makes it harder to climb out of. With the leafs in the back your tire won't drop as much because of the lack of flex but your tire isn't stuck in the bottom of a hole making it easier to get out of.

But I imagine that it would make your jeep handle funny on the road with a spongey front end and stiff rear end. But look at the cherokes, it works great for them.

Remeber that I am not a expert and this is what i herd from the guy in the tj. Someone with alot more knowledge would probaly say this guy is full of it.

I was wacthing one of the rock crawler champinships and say two rigs with the same set up. They didn't do much better or worse than the other competitors so i don't really think it makes that much of a diffrence. But putting leafs on an tj would be one of a kind. You would probaly get some strange looks from other tj owners.

[D4x4Fish]

You see I have a hour drive to work every morning that lets my brain think of all kinds of crazy stuff. So seeing a brand new Ford F350 on leafs, my brain started thinking. Yeah, dangerous, I know.

Don't Blame it on Driving

[nagal]

Don't Blame it on Driving

You are right, it could be Leaf Envy I am suffering from...

[NAILER341]

brad kilby did this to his jeep some time ago.

here are some quotes from another site with his thoughts:

Big, white, custom, guinea-pig, TJ-thing. I've heard you reference your hobby as this a number of times...care to elaborate some?

Brad Kilby: Well, this TJ has been a guinea pig and test bed for numerous things. From producing a product line to testing the goods on the trail. There isn't much left on it that is stock or has at least been tinkered with.

JA: So you (and others) have nicknamed this guinea-pig TJ-7, The Missing Link, etc... Some are calling it madness, others genius. What finally brought you to the point of giving up on your rear coil springs?

BK: Bad handling on the street and scary handling on the trail. My personal opinion is, coil springs are good if you want a cushy ride. If you want to go extreme, leaf spring is the way to go unless you want to deal with a conglomeration of brackets, control arms, sway bars and track bars. I'll stick to the leafs. :-) The rear leaf spring conversion was actually an experiment to see if I liked the way it handled, etc. I definatly like it over coils so I'm gonna keep them but we're going to make some changes in the future.

JA: Far as we can tell...you're the first person to do this. Personally, I've seen your rig on the trail pre- and post-coils and I'm thoroughly impressed with the improvements in off-roadability. You seem to be getting a lot of attention over this! Think you'll start some kind of crazy trend in the TJ community?

BK: Starting a trend isn't what I had in mind but if it happens, so be it. I've had quite a few TJ owners email me, asking specifics about the leafs and the problems they solved. I think there will be more folks converting in time.

JA: You hinted towards changes in the future...that top secret stuff?

BK: Not really. The plan is to convert the rear leafs to a SOA with Alcan springs (instead of SUA.) The CJ hangers will be replaced with YJ hangers. They have a mini ramp built into them and I think they'll be stronger too. We'll have to address the typical axle wrap problem but at this stage, what's another mod? :-)

JA: Tell me about the best time you've had wheelin'.

BK: That's a tough one. I'd say it'd have to be wheeling with Dehesa at TDS or our annual New Years weekend at Ocotillo Wells. Wheeling with all my buddies of course!

JA: What's your favorite trail?

BK: For scenery, Rubicon. For the challenge, the Hammers (pick one)

JA: What's the dumbest thing you've ever done in your Jeep?

BK: Flipped it rear over front off a sand dune at Pismo. It wasn't one
of my smartest moves.

JA: You've recently ventured out into the ever-growing list of Jeep and off-road suppliers. You seem to have taken the path of, "I think I can just sell what I built for myself..." What makes you different from the other guys?

BK: Quality and commitment. We manufacture certain products and sell other products as well, but I try to specialize in things that not every shop sells. Right now, we manufacture on board air brackets to install engine driven compressors on 2.5 and 4.0 Jeep engines. The compressors that are being used are the Yorks and rotary compressors. Mainly Sanden. We manufacture two different racks that go on the inside of the TJ with other models to follow. We also make a gas tank skid plate for the TJ. CJ and YJ models will follow. We are a stocking distributor for Con-Ferr Products and also the Four X Doctor. We have a couple more possibilities in the works too.

JA: So what's next on the horizon for Brad?

BK: Who knows! I might get tired of the front coils in the Jeep and put leaf springs in the front. Only time will tell. :-)

now as a yj driver i'll give you my 2 cents.
i think it would be counter productive. one of the things that kicks my ass the most out on the trail is the leaf spring hangers in front of the rear wheels. for the leaf spring to locate the rear diff where it is intended to be, and not relocate the fuel tank, it becomes a virtual hook.

i have shaved my spring hangers about an inch which helps a lot, but the location of the lower control arm bracket is still closer to the rear tire. this allows the tire to contact the rocks at the same time or just before the control arm mount.

this same problem arizes with the tj long arm kits. you wind up with too muck junk in the rocks preventing the rear tires from contacting the rocks before the bracketry.

ther you have it. my 2 pennies

[nagal]

i have shaved my spring hangers about an inch which helps a lot, but the location of the lower control arm bracket is still closer to the rear tire. this allows the tire to contact the rocks at the same time or just before the control arm mount.

this same problem arizes with the tj long arm kits. you wind up with too muck junk in the rocks preventing the rear tires from contacting the rocks before the bracketry.

Thats the kind of info I am interested in learning about. Thanks

Keep it coming. I know every one has their opinion on this (just like auto vs manual) but getting first hand info really helps.

I had read the Kilby TJ7 stuff and how he swears by it. I cant see how the improved stability of the rear is a gain considering Erik's brackets bashing into rocks and chit.

[NAILER341]

Here are a couple of pics of the before and after shaving the rear mounts.
[SIZED]http://www.pierviews.com/photogallery/jeep%20modification%20pages/body%20mount%20mod/IMG_6829.JPG[/SIZED]
[SIZED]http://www.pierviews.com/photogallery/jeep%20modification%20pages/body%20mount%20mod/IMG_6840.JPG[/SIZED]

they are much less of a problem for me then they were, but more of a problem than the lower control arm mounts on a short arm tj.

[blackZZR]

There was a guy on one of the other forums who did his TJ, and several of the guys tried it. I think the end result was noone could agree.
I can say I see both sides of the arguement, from the perspective of those who like either side. Personally , some of the work I have done makes the rear even more flexy than stock and I think it is a improvement, so returning to less flexy is not my deal, but I know of situations where the less flexiness would help, However I could not see doing it, If I wanted a less flexy jeep I would get a YJ and build that.
I have seen Nailer abuse his junk and will say a YJ can handle quite more than I am willing to put my 04 thru, but now that I paid it off, maybe that will change.

[goodtimes]

The trend in AZ seems to be the opposite. Guys running the hard trails are ditching leaf springs as fast as they can afford to. Axle wrap becomes a problem when you have good traction and long, near verticle climbs. In order to get good articulation, you either are running REALLY soft springs, so you end up adding a track bar and something to help control axle wrap, or you run relatively stiff springs but move them inboard as far as you can so that the increased leverage on them will force them to flex....the downside to that is you get a really bad ride on those bumpy dirt roads leading to the trail.

One downside to the 4 link is the front suspension likes to unload once you take the weight off of it and give it a little bit of power (pointing up a big verticle climb). Many use their winch to tie the front end down to avoid this. Big tires also help get the brackets up out of the way (38"+ seems to be trend for the extreme trails).

Personally, after being in both, I much prefer a properly set up 4 link to leafs, in any situation that comes to mind right now. In fact, I am planning on linking the back of my Dodge when I (eventually) lift that.

[aston]

XJs have always impressed me on the trail: coils/leafs and 10x?" wheelbase seems to work great, even with fairly mild rigs.

If your gonna' do leafs I would definitely recommend SOA: this helps get the springs and associated hardware further away from the rocks. Axlewrap is a big PITA however. A ladder bar is definitely required for tough trails.

Another option is quarter elliptic. Seems out of vogue now but maybe just the ticket for you.

[nagal]

I don't know if this even qualifies as a trend but in CA all sorts of crazy stuff happens

Axlewrap does seem to be the huge pitfall when talking about leafs.

Thanks for the good tech everyone and not turning this into a leaf vs coil flame war.

[blkTJ]

Thanks for the good tech everyone and not turning this into a leaf vs coil flame war.

too bad, you did.

come one, come all... any 4x4... toyota, ford, jeep etc... set up with any transmission, any transfer case and any lift (with rear leafs) (and similar TJ wheelbase) on 35s. Let us do any trail out at our favorite playground (JV) and I promise you the end result will not be that rear coils are inferior.

:2:

[RangerRick]

BTW guys.....
I don't suspect Brad will be torching the new Nth Degree 6" LJLA kit he put on his replacement vehicle. After all, he sold the white TJ & spent plenty of $ on the Hemi powered LJ with dog-leg shaped long arms so as to get suspension "off" the rocks... He even had the kit re-powder coated "Kilby Green!" (maybe for envy? LMFAO)

Rick OllllllO