leave spring over axle

[Jeeper Creeper]

I was just wondering if I could put my leave springs on top of my axle, and put some 35's on if I would have to do anything else to keep everything insinc.

thanks,
Dave

[JeepJunkie]

yes you can...other than that, im not sure what else to do...lol. PM Rick or wait till he posts here, im SURE he knows what you need to know.

[aston]

I was just wondering if I could put my leave springs on top of my axle, and put some 35's on if I would have to do anything else to keep everything insinc.

thanks,
Dave

SOA is a cost effective way to gain *lots* of lift. However, there are a few downsides to be aware of.

1. drive shaft length and angle

2. axle wrap: if you put some serious torque through the suspension, it *will* get ugly

3. steering: tie rod and/or drag link will hit stuff

4. e brake cable might need stretching

5. brakes hoses will need stretching

6. there must be a #6, I just can't think of it at the moment

[Davisrats]

Shocks length and mounts, bump stops, swap bar mounting...

What, about 5 inches of lift with stock springs?

[USMC 0369]

Better Late Than Never.

Okay, I'm looking at doing this same thing. SOA on my 74 CJ5. ALSO at the same time I'm looking at switching to the 2.5" YJ Springs. I know that the YJ springs are longer than the CJ, so I will reverse the fronts and move the axle about 1" to 2" forward. Yes, I figure this will cause me all kinds of hate and discontent besides what is listed below. I assume (as I've never done this before) my drive shafts will need to be much longer (probably custom?), my steering will be all out of whack, but bumps and bruises are part of the game.

I wanted to ask you about the "revolver" spring shackles that are supposed to prevent axle/spring wrap. Do they even work? Why wouldnt EVERYONE run them if they work so good? Would they be a waste of $. Keep in mind, I'm not looking to run with the 'big dogs' just yet. I just want to get out on the trails with some of you MJR'ers.

SOA is a cost effective way to gain *lots* of lift. However, there are a few downsides to be aware of.

1. drive shaft length and angle

2. axle wrap: if you put some serious torque through the suspension, it *will* get ugly

3. steering: tie rod and/or drag link will hit stuff

4. e brake cable might need stretching

5. brakes hoses will need stretching

6. there must be a #6, I just can't think of it at the moment

[aston]

Yes, I figure this will cause me all kinds of hate and discontent besides what is listed below.

I wanted to ask you about the "revolver" spring shackles that are supposed to prevent axle/spring wrap. Do they even work?

There's a thin line between hate and discontent and sage advice

I went SOA on my YJ a couple of months ago and am learning about axle wrap the hard way

I got the RE "Antiwrap Spring Perches." Well, maybe I was expecting more antiwrap than is really possible, 'cos I believe RE make good shite. Anyway, the problem is when I'm climbing *big* rocks and applying the torque, the pinion climbs skyward: so much that the U/Js bind and the yoke lets go.

So to answer your question I don't know if revolver shackles prevent axle wrap or not. I think it depends on how much force you put on the springs. In my experience it doesn't take a lot

So I'm planning on installing a ladder bar which I believe will *significantly* reduce axle wrap even with v high loads.

[USMC 0369]

I just read this...

So I'm planning on installing a ladder bar which I believe will *significantly* reduce axle wrap even with v high loads.

This is some of my research done today with Nagal's help.

ARTICLE

I've a lot more to look into I think.

[rick]

SOA is a cost effective way to gain *lots* of lift. However, there are a few downsides to be aware of.

1. drive shaft length and angle

2. axle wrap: if you put some serious torque through the suspension, it *will* get ugly

3. steering: tie rod and/or drag link will hit stuff

4. e brake cable might need stretching

5. brakes hoses will need stretching

6. there must be a #6, I just can't think of it at the moment

As far as #1 and 3-5, these are all issues you must deal with when doing a 4"+ leaf spring lift in most cases. However, you do not have to deal with #2 if you keep it spring under. I have very little axle wrap under most circumstances, and I set my rear spring perches with just a bit lower pinion angle than I really need to point the pinion directly at the CV just for this reason - when it does wrap it points right at the CV for maximum strength under max load. One of the main reasons I did not go spring over is this and the steering. I still had to deal with steering since I swapped in a front Scout D44. I flipped the drag link to the top of the knuckle. I would not have been able to do this as simply had I gone spring over. I would have had to purchase flat top knuckles, arms, custom rods, brakes, yada yada yada, if I had gone spring over. Also, if you plan to run a spring over on a CJ and you are going to flat skid it and clock the transfer case, you absolutely have to run a 2" body lift unless you are into cutting large sections of sheet metal out of your floor pan. I suspect a 2" body lift with spring over would be a bit higher than my Jeep is now, and mine is scary enough, thank you. I guess it depends on what you want. If you are planning on swapping in full width axles, I'd say spring over is the way to go. You just have to plan on dealing with all these issues up front. If you are staying stock width, I personally think SOA is a bit more work than it's worth. On the other hand, I can't exactly say my setup is "bolt in" either...

:shades: :two cents:

[Jeeper Creeper]

Thanks so much for all the replys......... I thnk I'll just go with 33's...... 1 1/2 " spacers so it keeps the tire from the body and call it at that. Most of my wheelin is in the back woods...... (fishing holes, hunting, etc not to much rock crawling, although that looks fun also.
Again thanks for the input,
Dave

[tonkadave]

It is not as bad as they say. Well I do get some spring wrap in the rear just as everyone says and have blown a u joint and yoke on lower Duran canyon in calico it wasn't pretty being stuck in the crack with no rear power. But I run full with chevy axles D44 in the front and Gm 12 bolt in the rear. in the front stock wrangler springs work great. ( I had a friend who wint with 2.5 in. wrangler springs and it was overkill, so he went to stock) I also have revolver shackels in the front only I get killer axle articulation. The set up seems to work great handles great. I also had to do a high steer set up in the front because of interferance with the draglink and spring only when I stuffed the right side all the way up. In the rear I started with stock wrangler springs and a 2in. block to make it sit level. I ran this set up for a while untill i cracked the blocks in half. So now to make up for the blocks being gone I use 2.5 in springs in the rear only. here are some picks of it flexing.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sgtkar.../ph//my_photos

[Jeeper Creeper]

What exactly is axle wrap ? and why are you only using shackle revolvers in the front.
Thanks in advance,
Dave

[aston]

blah, blah

What exactly is axle wrap ? and why are you only using shackle revolvers in the front.
Thanks in advance,
Dave

Axle wrap is defined by Newtons Laws of Motion: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction

So, as the diff turns the wheel one way, it also turns the axle housing the other (or tries to). The axle housing transfers this force to the leaf spring. In low load conditions it’s not much of an issue: the spring is tweaked a little. However, when you apply a large amount of torque suddenly, the spring will actually distort and become S shaped, which is called axle wrap.

Many off-road vehicle features make the effect worse: low gears, big rocks, spring over axle etc…

On street/strip vehicles, axle wrap tends to lift the rear wheels, just when you want maximum load on the rear tires. :thumbs_do

Off-road the axle lift is less important. The issue here is the pinion angle increases to the point where the driveshaft U/Js bind and fly apart. :thumbs_do :thumbs_do

Once the leaf spring is all twisted up it often springs back violently causing hopping or jumping. This loads up the rear tires and starts the process over again.

This is an excellent :beer: conversation.

[tonkadave]

The Nana, said it all about speing wrap! I only use thr revolvers in the front because I have a friend that had them front and rear and he said while climbing up steep objects they would want to open or did open in the rear. so he took them off. he says it worked better with them off the rear. So I ran the same set up and am very pleased withthe preformance of the jeep.

[USMC 0369]

okay...

Alright, since reading all of this... and reading a webpage about swapping YJ's into my CJ...

It seems the guy on the webpage constructed what appeared to me to be "traction bars". I'm not an engineer at all, but the concept seems pretty simple. To keep the spring wrap down, the axle housing gets help resisting twist by being linked to the frame. The guy in the article I read fab'd his own...

I'm trying to wrap my head around how to do this, but still get max articulation. That would be the reason for going SOA to begin with right? Well that and a cheap lift.

[tonkadave]

There are alot of Torque Bar out there made by al most every company. Skyjacker Fifth link $325, Nth deg. Mobility has the stinger $225 but you have to have the slider $225. Sams off road $299 just to name a few. It is a basic design you just mount it as close to the center as possible. I plan On making one for my jeep when I get home from Iraq.