Winch Set up

[mrblaine]

As I've indicated before (on this, and many other forums ), I have yet to find an _Industrial_ situation that allows or uses anything but crimped connections. I can tell you from personal experience (25+ years as a specifying engineer) that the Telecom, Data Center and Critical Power industries wouldn't even consider it - ever.

BTW - if you're in SoCal, I have a crimp tool I don't mind loaning out on occasion.

You're preaching to the choir as one who cuts off the nylon insulation from good quality brazed seam connectors and uses adhesive lined double wall heat shrink. That also lets me use the dimple side of the crimpers.

[cjdirtbiker]

There's more than a couple of us that know that crimping is preferred as the better connection. Unfortunately as you dig into it, you find that the tools used for acceptable crimps are not readily available, nor will the average user spend the money to buy a good tool when the bad tool is 2 bucks at harbor freight. But, the same can be said for soldered connections as well. Most DIYers don't have the skills or equipment to do a good soldered connection.

There was or still is a company in San Clemente many years ago that made very high end audio cables for home stereo. They had a nice page on their website that was an education in crimping over soldering for the long grain pure copper and pure silver speaker cables.

In it they explained that a connection that deformed the parent metal to the point of providing an oxygen free connection was superior in transmitting current.

I also had the opportunity to work with Otto who was the head electrical engineer at an aircraft company in Texas at one time and he taught us that no soldered connections were allowed in the aircraft they produced. Only crimped and only with good crimpers.

Blaine, I see you like the technical stuff

That pretty well sums it up. Within all of those URL's are commercial aviation, experimental aircraft, commercial electrical, transportation, marine, and specialty automotive experts that all say the same thing. The 'oxygen free connection' you mention, or a weather-proof seal for any terminal, is a common element throughout those links as well. Almost all recommended the use of heat-shrink tubing to seal out moisture and other impurities. And a lot of them mention proper stress-relief and mechanical supporting of any connection. They should not be under tension. One of the other authorities, John Wiles, had a good whitepaper on using proper terminals for fine-wire cabling. Generally he cautions the use of mechanical connectors with that type of cable due to the fragile nature of the strands. He also mentions that standard crimping terminals are not satisfactory for it, that specialty terminals made for fine-wire are recommended. Unless the flexibility is paramount for a given application, standard cabling was recommended for it's durability.

This cable supplier in AZ has good prices on commercial quality swaged termals in custom made lengths applicable to our use for winches and batteries. Seems to me I paid about $5 a foot for bulk welding cable and that's about what he charges for made-up cables.
http://www.custombatterycables.com/2-0_cables.htm

This subject seems to be debated over and over throughout all sorts of enthusiast forums, and the backyard mechanics (me, for example) have used soldering with success, but the guys that have worked in commercial and industrial environs have all learned that a mechanical connection for cable terminals are superior. When your life depends on it, like for aircraft and such, it becomes pretty damn important. One fellow had lost 2 friends in experimental aircraft crashes due to their use of un-tried processes. For us, we could be out in the middle of nowhere with failed equipment, or worse yet, a catastrophic fire due to failed wiring.

[mrblaine]

Blaine, I see you like the technical stuff

That pretty well sums it up. Within all of those URL's are commercial aviation, experimental aircraft, commercial electrical, transportation, marine, and specialty automotive experts that all say the same thing. The 'oxygen free connection' you mention, or a weather-proof seal for any terminal, is a common element throughout those links as well. Almost all recommended the use of heat-shrink tubing to seal out moisture and other impurities. And a lot of them mention proper stress-relief and mechanical supporting of any connection. They should not be under tension. One of the other authorities, John Wiles, had a good whitepaper on using proper terminals for fine-wire cabling. Generally he cautions the use of mechanical connectors with that type of cable due to the fragile nature of the strands. He also mentions that standard crimping terminals are not satisfactory for it, that specialty terminals made for fine-wire are recommended. Unless the flexibility is paramount for a given application, standard cabling was recommended for it's durability.

This cable supplier in AZ has good prices on commercial quality swaged termals in custom made lengths applicable to our use for winches and batteries. Seems to me I paid about $5 a foot for bulk welding cable and that's about what he charges for made-up cables.
http://www.custombatterycables.com/2-0_cables.htm

This subject seems to be debated over and over throughout all sorts of enthusiast forums, and the backyard mechanics (me, for example) have used soldering with success, but the guys that have worked in commercial and industrial environs have all learned that a mechanical connection for cable terminals are superior. When your life depends on it, like for aircraft and such, it becomes pretty damn important. One fellow had lost 2 friends in experimental aircraft crashes due to their use of un-tried processes. For us, we could be out in the middle of nowhere with failed equipment, or worse yet, a catastrophic fire due to failed wiring.

Anyone that wishes to prove to themselves the danger of a poor electrical connection should loosen the ground terminal on their battery to where it's sitting there but not tight. Then do some winching and watch the battery terminal melt. Ask me how I know it will do this.

Actually this is one debate I dislike intensely because even good folks operate under the myth that been passed off as truth about soldered connections.

I've even been in custom hot rod shops where the owner was bragging about soldering every connection under the dash on a car they built and how long it took him. How do you get a guy like that to understand that "soldering" ain't everything it's cracked up to be?

[cjdirtbiker]

>snip
BTW - if you're in SoCal, I have a crimp tool I don't mind loaning out on occasion.

Jeff,
Thank you for the offer. I would like to re-make my winch cables. My main power lead is a commercially made battery cable, but the cables from my solonoid box to the winch are made up from welding cable. I would like to replace those or at least put new ends on them if there's enough length to work with. I used the tray under brake booster for my solonoid pack. It's a clean installation but now I'm worried about the cables.

BTW, is anyone familiar with a power cutoff that's heavy duty enough for a winch cable connection? I think I saw a knife-switch somewhere rated for 400amps. Most battery switches are not rated high enough. I would really like to have a master disconnect at the battery without having to undo the bolt on the post terminal.

[mrblaine]

Jeff,
Thank you for the offer. I would like to re-make my winch cables. My main power lead is a commercially made battery cable, but the cables from my solonoid box to the winch are made up from welding cable. I would like to replace those or at least put new ends on them if there's enough length to work with. I used the tray under brake booster for my solonoid pack. It's a clean installation but now I'm worried about the cables.

BTW, is anyone familiar with a power cutoff that's heavy duty enough for a winch cable connection? I think I saw a knife-switch somewhere rated for 400amps. Most battery switches are not rated high enough. I would really like to have a master disconnect at the battery without having to undo the bolt on the post terminal.

http://www.bluesea.com/dept.asp?d_id...1=7459&l2=7492