Welders

[curtis]

I use 3/32 in 6011 & 7018.

[Mike]

I use 3/32 in 6011 & 7018.

I like my redneck welder too. 3/32 6011 got me home from Parker AZ on a broken-in-half track bar and it got me out of the middle of Holcomb Creek and into Big Bear and then home when a heim joint crapped out. Cheap, but it does take some practice.

[daniel_buck]

I've got a bunch of rods and an old stick welder, and I happen to have 2 batteries I should give this a try. I'd love to have the ability to fix something by welding on the trail.

[dirtman13]

So the Ready Welder II comes with a warning.
Are you guys carrying gas on the trail, welding with flux core in reverse polarity, or just ignoring the warning?

I use flux core and I disconnect the battery from the Jeep. I worry to much about my ECM.

I also have a 1/2" PVC tube with some 6011 just in case. :wink:

[Jerry Bransford]

One hard-to-kill totally false rumor about welding on vehicles is that the battery needs to be disconnected. Electrically speaking, there is no benefit to doing so. In fact, the battery isn't harmed by welding on a vehicle when it is connected and actually, having the battery in the circuit could theoretically filter (a battery also acts as a huge filter capacitor) out any spikes, though properly attaching the grounding clip close to the welding site makes any electrical spikes very unlikely. It truly is a false rumor the battery needs to be connected. That it does gets passed on like the gospel but it's of no benefit and simply isn't needed. Not to mention disco'ing the battery only disconnects the battery from the electrical system, everything else remains connected... like the far more sensitive components including the engine computer and alternator.

All this despite what someone's friend's cousin who is an "expert welder" said, since if you think about it, few welders know anything about electrical/electronic circuits beyond how to create a short circuit and melt metal.

[curtis]

I was talking about the batteries you use for welding.

[inVERt'D]

One hard-to-kill totally false rumor about welding on vehicles is that the battery needs to be disconnected. Electrically speaking, there is no benefit to doing so. In fact, the battery isn't harmed by welding on a vehicle when it is connected and actually, having the battery in the circuit could theoretically filter (a battery also acts as a huge filter capacitor) out any spikes, though properly attaching the grounding clip close to the welding site makes any electrical spikes very unlikely. It truly is a false rumor the battery needs to be connected. That it does gets passed on like the gospel but it's of no benefit and simply isn't needed. Not to mention disco'ing the battery only disconnects the battery from the electrical system, everything else remains connected... like the far more sensitive components including the engine computer and alternator.

All this despite what someone's friend's cousin who is an "expert welder" said, since if you think about it, few welders know anything about electrical/electronic circuits beyond how to create a short circuit and melt metal.

Yeah, it's one of those rumors that has been perpetuated by endless anecdotes about drained, split, or blown-up batteries, blown alternator diodes and regulators and other problem. As if that weren't bad enough, it continues to be repeated by authoritative automotive publications.

I appreciate your thoughts, and probably what you say about the battery acting as a filter capacitor has some merit, but I think you've gone too far in being dismissive of the other school of thought.

Ready welder perpetuates the myth in its owner's manual (see FAQ #5):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...lineManual.pdf

Here's a random example:
http://www.i-car.com/pdf/upcr/procedures/ro/ro01s.pdf

Goodall Antizap (also sold by Snap-On, MAC, etc., etc.):
http://www.goodallmfg.com/antizap-surge-protection/

Since you like theory (as do I) here's an interesting theory on the subject from Wikipedia's GTAW (TIG) article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tungsten_arc_welding
To strike the welding arc, a high frequency generator (similar to a Tesla coil) provides an electric spark; this spark is a conductive path for the welding current through the shielding gas and allows the arc to be initiated while the electrode and the workpiece are separated, typically about 1.5–3 mm (0.06–0.12 in) apart. This high voltage, high frequency burst can be damaging to some vehicle electrical systems and electronics, because induced voltages on vehicle wiring can also cause small conductive sparks in the vehicle wiring or within semiconductor packaging. Vehicle 12V power may conduct across these ionized paths, driven by the high-current 12V vehicle battery. These currents can be sufficiently destructive as to disable the vehicle; thus the warning to disconnect the vehicle battery power from both +12 and ground before using welding equipment on vehicles.

[RAT]

All this over kill. Just be safe and disconnect that damn battery! Or not. WTH

[inVERt'D]

Oh come on now, Kurt, how are we supposed to solve the great problems of our time if we can't hash them out a little?

[RAT]

Oh come on now, Kurt, how are we supposed to solve the great problems of our time if we can't hash them out a little?

^^ a bowl full might just help

[Jerry Bransford]

Most of you guys respect Blaine's opinion on many things, ask him to see what he says on the subject. I know his feelings are the same as mine.

[aw12345]

Blaine has a opinion about everything. Thing is, opinions are like @ssholes most all of them stink

[inVERt'D]

Most of you guys respect Blaine's opinion on many things, ask him to see what he says on the subject. I know his feelings are the same as mine.

In that case, end of discussion!

[mkjeepers]

Some interesting discussions on the subject

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGd...amage-cars-ECU

[inVERt'D]

Some interesting discussions on the subject

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGd...amage-cars-ECU

That was interesting, thanks! The comments regarding electromagnetic fields and inductance were definitely food for thought. I've noticed EMF at times while TIG--can make the filler rod get pulled to the work piece.