Synthetic winch line protector

[dr.dirty]

We are not children here and we should not expect to be addressed in the way a child would so as to not hurt his feelings. There was nothing wrong with his chosen style of delivery... it was simple, direct, didn't beat around the bush, and cut to the chase. Apparently a few here have overly sensitive feelings and need to get over it.

im over it are you ? have a wonderful day

[mrblaine]

It is not about the advice it is about the messenger and his chosen style of delivery.

What precisely bothered you about my delivery? It was much kinder and gentler than I talk in person. It was direct, to the point and accurate. Why does that hurt your feelings?

Maybe I should have adopted the formal MJR stance and blown smoke up his rear about how great his idea was and let him learn the hard way like we've done. Would that have been better for you?

[FishPOET]

One of two things is true, either you're a new winch owner, or you're new to synthetic lines and actually using them.

As it turns out Scott has confirmed that neither of these are true and that makes your post inaccurate.

More importantly is the tone and attitude which you use to get your point across. You are no stranger to this point. It has been following you on every forum you have posted on for many years.

Maybe I should have adopted the formal MJR stance and blown smoke up his rear about how great his idea was and let him learn the hard way like we've done. Would that have been better for you?

The official MJR stance? Actually except for mrblaine most of the folks on MJR have the stance that they would rather be friendly and helpful rather than an asshole and helpful. You could have said "Scott it has been my experience that the nylon winch line protectors get caught in snatch blocks and cause problems. It has also been my experience that the protectors do little to actually protect the line from sharp rocks."

[dr.dirty]

I just dont see the need for the im better or smarter than you attitude. Many people look here for advice because there are a ton of smart people on here. having used the cable sleeve that cam with the winchline against the rocks and also in my snatch block i have never had any issues. worse case if it needs to come off to aid in a recovery its far to easy to cut off with a pair of surgical scissors wich i carry in the jeep.

[NAILER341]

Funny stuff right there boys and girls.

Well, having had well over 100 pulls on my 100' synthetic rope and no breakage, I can tell you that Blaine is right on this one. As much as I hate to agree with him, even after he cut my perfectly good winchline sleeve off of the cable with his knife, I have to agree.

I did use the protector a time or two, but a good ol' fashion leather glove would do the same thing if not better.

The damn protector gets bunched up in there making it difficult to get the line out when you need it.

I'm sure his intention wasnt to hurt your woo woo feelings, he just delivers information without a bunch of wishy washy blathering.

The fact of the matter remains that all of that sleeve will become a hassle on the trail if you do indeed use your winch.

On another note, it seems your concern is to protect the line from the light and or the heat at the drum.
Again, I'll say my 5+ year old non insulated (from the drum) winch rope with well over 100 real pulls on it has handled being exposed to the heat of the drum and the UV from the sun and had zero ill effects.

Carry on.....

[dr.dirty]

Funny stuff right there boys and girls.

Well, having had well over 100 pulls on my 100' synthetic rope and no breakage, I can tell you that Blaine is right on this one. As much as I hate to agree with him, even after he cut my perfectly good winchline sleeve off of the cable with his knife, I have to agree.

I did use the protector a time or two, but a good ol' fashion leather glove would do the same thing if not better.

The damn protector gets bunched up in there making it difficult to get the line out when you need it.

I'm sure his intention wasnt to hurt your woo woo feelings, he just delivers information without a bunch of wishy washy blathering.

The fact of the matter remains that all of that sleeve will become a hassle on the trail if you do indeed use your winch.

On another note, it seems your concern is to protect the line from the light and or the heat at the drum.
Again, I'll say my 5+ year old non insulated (from the drum) winch rope with well over 100 real pulls on it has handled being exposed to the heat of the drum and the UV from the sun and had zero ill effects.

Carry on.....

Well thank you That was some good stuff

i carry spme pieces of carpet for times when the line is really going to get scrubbed on the rocks.

[curtis]

Hey you will never have to worry about Blaine being a politician,He tells it like he see it. No pollitically correct for him.LOL

[NAILER341]

One other thing-
I'd say that 90% of the time my winch cable is pulled, I'm not the person doing the rigging.

If my winch rope is coming out, my jeep is likely ready to fall over, or is all twisted up in the rocks.

When someone else is working with my tools and equipment, it is important to me that they function as they are supposed to, and not be a hassle to work with.

If my jeep is dangling on the edge and ready to fall over, and the person pulling my rope has to struggle to get the damn thing out of there due to some tangled up winchline protector, that is a big problem.

There are also time on the trail when it is a long recovery through the whole trail. The winch line will be in and out 20+ time in one afternoon of trying to get the broken pile of shit off of the trail. The last thing any one on the recovery team wants to be doing is hassling with some pain in the ass serve no real purpose winch line protector

Just to reiterate... I was sad when he cut mine off on the trail, and I did yell curse words at him for doing it at the time.

Now.... I see his logic in doing so, and agree that it was necessary.

carry on .....

[Britain]

I like this thing....that harsh someone knows what he's talking about....
[SIZED]http://www.icorva.com/Photography/st.jpg[/SIZED]

[mrblaine]

As it turns out Scott has confirmed that neither of these are true and that makes your post inaccurate.

In your limited view that may be true. In my not so limited view, the statement still stands. If you know winching and rigging and use synthetic line and are experienced, then you would say what I said as has been backed up by those with experience in this very thread.

Then he went on to say this

I wanted to see how it holds up then[COLOR="Red"] ill order enuff to do the whole line @ 40 cents a foot i think its well worth it [/COLOR]

which would lead anyone with winch experience to believe that the person that said it was either having a bad day or just clueless. I picked somewhere between the two.

More importantly is the tone and attitude which you use to get your point across. You are no stranger to this point. It has been following you on every forum you have posted on for many years.

Sorta, but closer to the point is on every forum I've been on over the years is a small yet vocal group of folks with tender feelings who tend to get their panties all wadded up when dealing with reality.

The official MJR stance? Actually except for mrblaine most of the folks on MJR have the stance that they would rather be friendly and helpful rather than an asshole and helpful. You could have said "Scott it has been my experience that the nylon winch line protectors get caught in snatch blocks and cause problems. It has also been my experience that the protectors do little to actually protect the line from sharp rocks."

Except they don't get caught in snatch blocks as much as they wad up and explode on side pulls. Face it, if you've been following me around for as long as you've noticed and I haven't changed my posting style in all that time, why don't you just accept it and move on like the rest of the world has done?

And since you've let your I hate Blaine glasses get in the way, take a look down at the bottom. I didn't say if you don't take that crap off, you're an idiot, I used my most gentle- I'd strongly encourage you.

That's as nice as it gets, deal with it.

[miguelitojeep97]

:whip: good info here thanks guys!

[bails85]

i would like to ask a ? about winches in general. why use the synthetic line? why not the steel cable that comes with the winch. the way i see it from a common sense point of view is that steel cable would be stronger. think about it is used on tow trucks, rescue vehicles, air lift systems, swing stages for construction, etc. why would u want to run a rope on your winch. pretty much what synthetic line looks like. im not trying to argue a point or anything im just simply trying to learn why. im a newbie when it comes to winches. and just for the hell of it if u didnt know any better and someone put a synthetic line and a steel line in front of u and asked what is stronger what would your answer be? and im not trying to fuel the fire for another arguement but that protector does look like a stupid idea but like i said im a newbie and im just looking at it from a simple point of view with no experience. im looking for the right idea here guys so fill me in. and just so u know when a newbie reads a thread where the veterans are arguing the way u guys were it really doesnt help anyone who might be interested in what either of u have to say.

[aw12345]

The biggest reason is the danger of the steel cable breaking. You do not want to be anywhere near a steel cable when it snaps

[RAT]

ANother reason is weight. It's just as strong as steel at a fraction of the weight. Like Art says, when a steel line parts, it may look and sound pretty cool, but it ain't if you're standing in the bite.

[mrblaine]

i would like to ask a ? about winches in general. why use the synthetic line? why not the steel cable that comes with the winch.

Well for starters, steel is weak, dangerous, has far too much stretch under load, and if you follow industry rigging standards, has a very short life span as well as being way too heavy to be of any real value.

the way i see it from a common sense point of view is that steel cable would be stronger.

Not even close. Synthetic cable in the same diameters is about 20% stronger and Dyneema fiber is 15 times stronger than steel pound for pound. Since most of us use 3/8" diameter that we've swapped in for 5/16" steel cable, we enjoy around a 100 percent strength advantage. The vast majority of steel in 5/16" diameter is 9800 lbs breaking strength and most quality 3/8" synthetic is around 20,000 lbs breaking strength.

think about it is used on tow trucks,

I can think of several reasons why tow trucks use steel. First is the operators. Not 100 percent, but most tow truck operators don't own the equipment and they treat it accordingly. The cable is abused and constantly mishandled and I've yet to see a cable on a TT that according to industry standards is not in need of being replaced unless the truck was new. Another reason is cost. As a truck owner I wouldn't send expensive cable out in the field knowing what I know about the guys I hired to run the trucks.

rescue vehicles,

Give an example.

air lift systems,

Check out helicopter lift lines. You may be surprised. (although most are so overkill it's ridiculous as in a chopper with a 500 lb lift capacity running a 2" Amsteel Blue lift line)

swing stages for construction, etc. why would u want to run a rope on your winch. pretty much what synthetic line looks like. im not trying to argue a point or anything im just simply trying to learn why.

Number one reason is safety. The newer high performance fibers like Dyneema which is polyethylene, and Kevlar which is an aramid have very desireable properties which make them ideal for winch lines. Very high strength with very very low stretch. The elasticity is what gets you with steel. When you put a high load on steel cable, it stretches and elongates a fair bit. If the line parts, the stored energy coupled with the higher mass makes for some high levels of danger.

The synthetic does the same, but because the mass is so much lower, the danger is lessened greatly. An easy way to get your head around this is very simple.

You go cut a five foot section of steel cable and I'll do the same with my synthetic. Now, let's trade, I get the steel and you get the synthetic. We'll take turns smacking each other with the lines. I'll let you go first and we'll trade until someone has had enough. Who do you think will give in first?

im a newbie when it comes to winches. and just for the hell of it if u didnt know any better and someone put a synthetic line and a steel line in front of u and asked what is stronger what would your answer be?

I've been running synthetic line on my winch since early 2000 when Emil from Masterpull contacted me through the Silver Coyote and asked me to do some testing in this part of the world. My immediate reaction at the time was there was no way a "rope" would ever work, but I gave it a shot. After the first use, I was convinced. I was even more convinced when we were up on Jack and Rich (Ol Man in this thread) was winching his CJ up over a pile of rocks and the rig snapped back against his line with me standing next to it. When it broke, no damage happened at all. We tied a knot in the line and finished getting him unstuck.

and im not trying to fuel the fire for another arguement but that protector does look like a stupid idea but like i said im a newbie and im just looking at it from a simple point of view with no experience. im looking for the right idea here guys so fill me in. and just so u know when a newbie reads a thread where the veterans are arguing the way u guys were it really doesnt help anyone who might be interested in what either of u have to say.

And I really don't care that you are or are not interested. The info is there, you can take it or leave it. I do understand though, because with rare exception when someone types the way you do, I typically ignore the post and move on refusing to answer even if I know the answer and "could" be helpful.