To Steel or not to Steel (Aluminum?)

[Russ Chung]

Steel will always take more and harder "hits" than beer can metal will(alum.).
Go with steel.
Cry one time and do it right.......
Respectfully,
LG

Lumpy,

6160T6 is NOT "beer can metal". Think of the strength and hardness of the frame of your Jeep compared to the strength and hardness of the fender of your Jeep. Both are steel, but they are completely different in terms of strength and hardness.

[mrblaine]

Aluminum is much softer than even mild steel, so yeah, it gouges that much easier. Since it gouges easier, it won't slip over rocks quite as well. I would imagine this is why Savvy has utilizes a steel rock slider--they are trying to get the best of both worlds. Personally, I'd definitely go with aluminum on the sides and corners, and if I used steel anywhere it would be on the sliders.

In general you're correct. I didn't use aluminum on the slider part that sees the rocks because of the relatively small radius. As a flat skid, the radius is nearly infinite and slides rather nicely, plus it holds up beyond well in areas like JV.

I've been running the same flat aluminum skid out there for many years and not once has it impeded forward progress and the lines of rock scrapes go from the front to the back showing that if it were going to gouge and stop me, it would do so long before then.

[mrblaine]

Jerry, do you really believe that alum will hold up to more abuse/hits/rocks than mild steel will gauge for gauge?
That's just not going to happen.....
And yes, I have machined tons of alum. and steel, in my life, along with 17-4 s/steel and AL-6 Ti.
Respectfully,
LG

Hit for hit, gauge for gauge, absolutely it will hold up better. I have steel corners that are badly dented and the same hits on aluminum corners don't do anything except scratch the finish somewhat.

There's a lot more to this stuff other than what we typically judge the strength of materials with.

I can't figure out how to prove it yet other than anectdotally, but for some reason, the yield strength of aluminum being closer to it's ultimate tensile means that while steel is stronger in general, it will dent easier than aluminum in 6061 T-6.

I also know that my partner has tried to destroy one of our bumpers on the front of his rig mercilessly without success and that's more than enough to convince me that I've used the proper material for the application.

When I say without mercy, I mean trying the optional line at the fall in the middle of Claw and dropping the whole rig 3+ feet onto a big rock without tearing up the bumper or even causing serious damage to it. Not once, but 4 times.

[mrblaine]

Steel will always take more and harder "hits" than beer can metal will(alum.).
Go with steel.
Cry one time and do it right.......
Respectfully,
LG

Well, respectfully, I see no reason to saddle yourself with the weight of all that steel.

Here's a comparison for you. If you run a Kilby gas tank skid, you can remove it and install our GTS and full aluminum corners and weigh less that what you did with just the steel gas tank skid. And that's corners without the steel welded on flares.

I removed a set of the short corners in 1/8" steel and they weighed more than our full aluminum corners.

The front bumper with fairlead mount, recovery points, light tabs, and the hardware, weighs less than the stock bumper on a TJ.

[Mitch]

Question,

The Savvy gas tank skid does look awesome and appears to be one of the finest out there. But on weight....Does 40 or 50 pounds of weight savings collectively make a difference? So if I leave my water can and gas can in camp my Jeep will crawl better? Some how I don't buy it. Oh yeah, I don't know everything. Curious.

Mitch

[inVERt'D]

Why yes, we've taken exactly the same precautions Chrysler did when they bolted the engine together under the hood of your rig.

Take a peek sometime. You have brass threaded into aluminum bolted to a cast iron head with steel bolts right next to a copper wound iron armature in an aluminum housing bolted to a steel and aluminum bracket with steel bolts on the other side of the iron block. Not to mention that hundreds of thousands of us have no issue not insulating our alloy rims from steel Wheel Mounting Surfaces.

In other words, it's just not an issue. Your engine will fall apart from electrolysis or any galvanic reaction long before you see any issues bolting on aluminum and steel armor.

Probably my impression was mistaken, but the way RubiKat described your sliders, I thought they were steel on aluminum. If they're not, I'd agree, there's really no issue there. But if naked aluminum and steel are sandwiched together, there will be issues. Not so much in dry inland SoCal, but in some areas, definitely. For example, anywhere where the vehicle is exposed to salt spray from the roads. Of course, that plays hell on metals whether dissimilar or not...just worse between dissimilar. My Jeep came from Ohio, and there were issues with steel and aluminum contact between the brake drums and alloy wheels and on various body parts.

Regarding engines, I have been digging into those since before I was old enough to drive. On engines with aluminum heads and/or intake manifolds and cast iron blocks, electrolysis does frequently occur and can be an issue in the cooling system. I've dealt with that first hand.

[RubiKat]

YIKES!!!! I sure did not mean to stir this pot!

Thanks for everyones opionions and to MrBlaine for straightening out mistakes I may have made in my original post.

I guess at this point I just need to make a decision and be happy with it...

Wish me luck!

[aw12345]

Ha I like the shiny aluminum ones, besides they weigh next to nothing, do not need to be painted and just plain look cool in my book. Oh yeah I also abused them and they hold up quite well so there ya have it, the only draw back is they cost more than say smitty built steel corners. However since Savvy and Rockmen started marketing aluminum corners the prices have come down and they are not all that much more expensive than the steel ones. Which makes the argument for aluminum corners and other bling even better. Same goes for the Savvy aluminum tank skid it's a pretty stout and well designed skidplate

[Lumpy Grits]

Well, then we agree to disagree on this issue!
I will stick with my steel corners and skidplate.
BTW, G.M. has had allot of issues with alum heads and iron blocks. they even came up with a special coolant(Dex-cool)and that didn't fix all of the problems. Dex-cool even caused some new ones......
Respectfully,
LG

[Lumpy Grits]

Lumpy,

6160T6 is NOT "beer can metal". Think of the strength and hardness of the frame of your Jeep compared to the strength and hardness of the fender of your Jeep. Both are steel, but they are completely different in terms of strength and hardness.

Me thinks it's more to do with gauge and the fact of formed heavy wall sq. tubing(Jeep frame)to sheet metal body(.035"). Apples and oranges type of thing.
Respectfully,
LG

[NAILER341]

Well, then we agree to disagree on this issue!
I will stick with my steel corners and skidplate.
BTW, G.M. has had allot of issues with alum heads and iron blocks. they even came up with a special coolant(Dex-cool)and that didn't fix all of the problems. Dex-cool even caused some new ones......
Respectfully,
LG

You are comparing apples to baseball bats.

The AL issues with engines was heating and cooling related, not hits with rocks or its steel fasteners.

[mrblaine]

Well, then we agree to disagree on this issue!
I will stick with my steel corners and skidplate.
BTW, G.M. has had allot of issues with alum heads and iron blocks. they even came up with a special coolant(Dex-cool)and that didn't fix all of the problems. Dex-cool even caused some new ones......
Respectfully,
LG

Coolant running through something is an entirely different issue. We're in a Jeep forum and I specifically reference the Jeep engine we're all so familiar with. It has an aluminum intake bolted to an iron head with steel bolts. Now while I can't prove there's never been an issue with electrolysis, if there was more than one or two isolated incidents, I'm pretty sure I would have heard about it on the forums I've been on over the years.

If you have an example that proves me wrong, please, post it up.

[NAILER341]

Question,

The Savvy gas tank skid does look awesome and appears to be one of the finest out there. But on weight....Does 40 or 50 pounds of weight savings collectively make a difference? So if I leave my water can and gas can in camp my Jeep will crawl better? Some how I don't buy it. Oh yeah, I don't know everything. Curious.

Mitch

Yes, weight does matter.
Every pound counts.
Take away the steel gas tank skid, rear bumper, tire, tire carrier, water can, gas can, thin your tool bags to the things you might actually need on the trail, and you have just left behind 300+ Pounds that will no longer be holding you back, stressing your axles etc.

Think of it like this.. Strap a 50# pack on your ass and hoof it up a tall hill.
Take it off and repeat. Which was harder?

[mrblaine]

Question,

The Savvy gas tank skid does look awesome and appears to be one of the finest out there. But on weight....Does 40 or 50 pounds of weight savings collectively make a difference? So if I leave my water can and gas can in camp my Jeep will crawl better? Some how I don't buy it. Oh yeah, I don't know everything. Curious.

Mitch

Depends on the level of performance that you need to extract from your rig. If you're just dinking around and not pushing your rig to it's limits, bolt on as much weight as you like. When it matters though, yes, that gas can and water can make a huge difference.

No one that plays hard that has has issues has ever come back and complained that the diet we finally convinced them to go on didn't work.

In fact, all of them have agreed that it needed to be done much sooner.

But, if you decide that I'm full of it, I'm not going to be that distraught. I've been on this soap box for years and I'm used to it.

[mrblaine]

Me thinks it's more to do with gauge and the fact of formed heavy wall sq. tubing(Jeep frame)to sheet metal body(.035"). Apples and oranges type of thing.
Respectfully,
LG

Like most with preconceived notions that don't fit what your currently looking at, you're making statements that fit your knowledge.

The point Russ made was valid, yes both aluminum beer cans and our tank skid are aluminum, but that's where the resemblance to one another ends. As with your steel comment being apples and oranges, you are correct, but consider if I bagged up 500 lbs of beer cans and dropped them on the hood of your rig from 10 feet. You'd have a hard time explaining to all your buddies that the damage was from a beer can.

There's more to a product than the material it's made from. The design of the structure plays a big part in it's final performance and while we're on the subject of design, it might be of interest to you that you can take a single empty beer can which has a wall thickness that is less than 1/3 the thickness of a business card and it will easily support 150 lbs.