New Member Questions on Jeep Purchase

[gmorell]

Hey all! I'm new to the site. I am interested in purchasing my first Jeep and need some advice on what to get. I want to do mostly trials and mudding, maybe some rock climbing once I get the hang of things. I also want a rig that is street legal. I am looking to get a TJ. Questions I have are:

1. What trim level/options, axels, etc..
3. Do I need Lockers?
4. Any years to stay away from
5. Hard or Soft top


Thanks in advance for all your help!

Gerald

[Guest]

Anything is better than the D30 and D35 axles But, you can beef up the D35(rear axle) to make it better. So, if you have a choice when buying get the D44 or a Ford 8.8

I recommend them. At least a locker in the rear axle.

I personally think the fuel injected years are better. The 4.0l started fuel injection in 1993 I think. The 4cyl started in the late 80's for fuel injection. I noticed when I bought mine a few months ago, the carb'd jeeps fail smog a lot!

Your preference.

I hope this helps a little I am sure you will get more detailed information from others.

Welcome!

[JeepGal]

Hey all! I'm new to the site. I am interested in purchasing my first Jeep and need some advice on what to get. I want to do mostly trials and mudding, maybe some rock climbing once I get the hang of things. I also want a rig that is street legal. I am looking to get a TJ. Questions I have are:

1. What trim level/options, axels, etc..
3. Do I need Lockers?
4. Any years to stay away from
5. Hard or Soft top


Thanks in advance for all your help!

Gerald

Welcome to the Forum!

I never intended my Jeep to be what it is either. Rock crawling can start out very benignly innocent. Its quite a addicting.

A good base to build on would be a TJ (98 and up), with a 4.0 Liter 6cyl engine, automatic. Look for D44 rear axle at the least.

The Rubicon package came with a D44 front and back, geared at 4:11(If I remember correctly) with lockers. (The higher the number, the lower the gearing. Low gearing is your friend. You'll want to match the gearing to your tire size.)

Id start with a fairly stock vehicle and get to know it. You can do a lot with a bit of lift and tires. I wheeled my Jeep HARD unlocked with 33's. I ran Rubicon and many trails in Moab unlocked on 33's. With a bit of finesse, and going easy on the gas, you'll be fine.

You'll eventually want lockers. Id recommend ARB's. You can turn them on and off as you need them.

Hard tops are expensive and unforgiving. One smack on a tree, and youve got a broken window. They are big and bulky to store. Not so difficult to take off, but you definitely need two people. Id suggest a soft-top.

I hope that helps.

Tam

[inVERt'D]

All good advice/ input above. Here is my .02...


Engine:
Get a 4.0, especially if it's going to be a driver and a trail rig. You can gear a 4 cyl down for the trail, but then it will suck on the highway. Don't even think of a 4-banger if you like to play in the mud. You need horses and torque to keep momentum when the mud gets deep--gearing can't save you there; similiar with sand climbs.

Just a note, the TJ isn't the greatest for mudding. If you're really into it, you're a lot better off with something with a longer wheelbase, stronger axles, and a V-8.

2000-2001 4.0 TJs probably have the most power of the TJs. In 2002 they detuned the engine to keep up with federal emissions regulations. Is it noticeable? I've got a 2000, my bro had a 2003, and even with aftermarket stuff on his, mine was noticeably faster, although this was no doubt in part due to my slightly lower gearing.


Transmissions:
Automatics are easier for rock crawling because you don't have the stall factor. However, they don't give you as much control over or as low gearing as a manual. Gas mileage will also be somewhat worse.

Manual:
1997-1999 Jeep TJs with 4.0 used the AX15 5-speed manual transmission--not a bad little Japanese box, but not super strong. 2000-2004 4.0 TJs used the NV3550 5-speed manual; reputed to be stronger than the AX15, but can have issues. In 2000, there was a problem with the internal shift linkage that can cause it to not fully engage certain gears. I no longer have 1st gear for practical purposes. Other than that and a tendency to be a little noisy, great little tranny. 2005-2006 manual TJs came with the 6-speed NSG370. Gear spread is close than NV3550, and 1st gear is lower, but apparently these aren't all that strong.

Auto
I don't know as much about the autos offered in Jeeps, but the 4-speed 42RLE has a good reputation and was offered from 2003-on. I've never heard anything bad about the older TorqueFlite 3-speeds either.

Axles
If you can afford a Rubicon, it might be a great choice, otherwise find a Jeep w/ a D30 front, and a D44 rear.

I agree with Jeep4Cern here: Avoid the Dana 35. Never owned one, but by all accounts, it is a real piece of crap. If you buy a rig with one, figure you'll end up spending $1000-$2500 (or more) in parts to replace it with a Dana 44. That axle has earned a such a bad reputation, a lot of experienced wheelers won't even let you in their group with it. Yeah, you can get a Super 35 kit with much stronger axles, but as I understand it, its weakness is in the structure and design of the axle housing itself. You can truss it up, but doing that right is not going to be cheap, since welding the trusses to it will in all likelihood cause the axle tubes to bend upward if nothing is done to prevent it

A Dana 44 front end would be great too, but only came from the factory on Rubicon models. All other TJs came with Dana 30 front axles. It has it's limitations, but IMHO, it's not a bad little axle at all for tires up to 33". You can beef it up, but it's inherent weakness is in the small size of its ring gear. The smaller the ring gear, the fewer teeth will be engaged with the pinion (input from driveshaft) at any one time. This problems is compounded by lower gearing.

Lockers
Lockers can be a huge asset, but I agree with JeepGal in that if you're new to wheeling in general and rock crawling in particular, it's good to learn to wheel open--it will make you a better wheeler. Otherwise, you might learn to substitute equipment for good wheeling technique, which in the long run will be a lot more expensive, and make you look a lot stupider. Not only that, but open axles are more forgiving in that you're not as likely to break something if you make a mistake or do something stupid like popping the clutch, bouncing on a climb, etc.

Let me qualify something: the Trac Lok (aka Trash Lok) in TJ D44s doesn't qualify as a locker--it's a limited slip, and can be a huge help in mud, snow, sand, loose dirt, etc., but not so much in the rocks.

If you get interested in any built rigs, post it up (but not how to find it), I'm sure someone here would give you some feedback.

Good luck and welcome!

[Dezertdog]

Wow inverted,
I just learned a lot about my rig.
I have an 05 TJ 2" suspension/1"body lift on 33's
D30/D35 both open, 3:07 gears and a 6 speed tranny.
I wheel it hard. Rocks, sand, mud and snow. Still learning though.
Guess I'm lucky I haven't broke anything yet.
I always make sure I have good spotters though.

Anyway, gmorell. I guess what I'm saying is. Start with whatever your budget allows, upgrade as you learn.
The learning part is really fun!
Personally, I love my soft top. It's a li'l noisy, but hey.. it's a Jeep.
Don't know if that's any help, but there it is.

Scott

[Mike]

Hi Gerald. Welcome to MJR!

As for info, I can't share any better detail than inVERt'D. I learned a few things from his post as well.

I CAN tell you that a Dana 35 has it's limitations and that it is very expensive to make a change to a Dana 44. So, I strongly encourage finding a Dana 44 rear axle to start with.

As for lockers, if you have to start with only one, get a FRONT locker. No Joke. If you want to do anything in California besides sand and mud, a front locker is the best choice. The chances of an axle needing help in ruts, rocks, or hill climbs is most likely going to be the front. I seldom lock my rear axle on these types of terrain.

Again, Welcome to the forum. Good luck with your hunt.

[Roger]

Welcome to MJR - I have found this to be the best Jeep website. Great people here.

inVERT'D - Great posting. I think you should submit it to one of the Jeep magazines, it's that good.

[Schmo]

I think what everyone is sayin is just buy a Rubicon!!! Locked Dana 44's F/R, 4:1 Transfer case, 4:10 gears, Disc Brakes F/R, etc. Kinda a waste if you're looking to turn it into a buggy (cough Josh cough), but otherwise a great place to start.

[womb raider 940]

I think what everyone is sayin is just buy a Rubicon!!! Locked Dana 44's F/R, 4:1 Transfer case, 4:10 gears, Disc Brakes F/R, etc. Kinda a waste if you're looking to turn it into a buggy (cough Josh cough), but otherwise a great place to start.

you know what!!!!


I never planned on going this route. But you are right. It depends on what you plan on doing with it in the long run.

[gmorell]

WOW! You guys are awesome! I never expected to get so much info.. Thanks. So, what should I expect to pay for a used Rubicon and are there any trusted sources you use to get used Jeeps? I was trying to stay around 10k not sure that will be enough. Also, should I be looking for something that has already been modified (lift, tires, etc) or start with a stock rig?

Thanks again

[inVERt'D]

:dunno: You know, I had no intention of posting anything that comprehensive when I started. Glad y'all liked it, though. Roger, that's very nice of you to say; kinda reluctant about that though...

Dezertdog, seems to me about those D35s is that they will work fine up to a point, then bite you in the a**. I have a lot of fun with my little locked D30 up front, but I try to stay mindful of its limitations. I know those brave little axles aren't getting any stronger, though...

Good point Mike about the front locker--I'm with you there. Sometimes a rear locker can get you twisted up, cuz it's always trying to push you straight ahead--even if that's not a good thing. Sometimes a rear locker is extremely helpful, if not absolutely necessary. Independently selectable lockers would be ideal in principle, but I personally can't afford them. If I had one selectable locker, it would be in the rear.

[Kodiak Spirit]

All I would add is...

1) Look under the jeep before you buy it, look for bangin' and scratchin' and bashin' because some people tear their jeeps up before they trade 'em in... There are a lot of Rubicon mall crawlers out there that have never seen a trail, and you can pick one of those up.

2) The Wrangler 4.0 went fuel injection in '91

3) Welcome to MJR!

4) whatever you do, don't get a Red one... :devil:

[NAILER341]

WOW! You guys are awesome! I never expected to get so much info.. Thanks. So, what should I expect to pay for a used Rubicon and are there any trusted sources you use to get used Jeeps? I was trying to stay around 10k not sure that will be enough. Also, should I be looking for something that has already been modified (lift, tires, etc) or start with a stock rig?

Thanks again

you might look at www.daveysjeeps.com
they are slim pickins right now, but i see some incredible deals come up on that site.
Gerald (provelogear) has picked up a couple of those daveys jeeps and been happy with them.
they all require some work, as they were in accidents.

[Schmo]

So, what should I expect to pay for a used Rubicon and are there any trusted sources you use to get used Jeeps? I was trying to stay around 10k not sure that will be enough. Also, should I be looking for something that has already been modified (lift, tires, etc) or start with a stock rig?

They just brought out the Rubicon in 2003, so it might be a bit tough to find a nice one for under 10K, but with some of the deals out there at this time, you might not be too far off. As far as where to look, I'd recommend taking your time figuring out what you really want and doing a through search. I found my Rubi at a Mercedes Benz dealership!!! Like Kodiak Spirit mentioned, crawl under it and make sure that it's not beat up underneath, but being out here in yuppieville, finding a mall crawler should not be tough, mine didn't have so much as a scratch underneath or a scuff on any of the wheels. If you do end up with a Rubi, I'd get it stock, throw a 2" budget boost and some disconnets on it and wheel the hell out of it . . . you'll be amazed at what you'll be able to do!

[Schmo]

Just as a point of reference:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...=1245430426055