More Closed Mines - Oro Grande

[100dollarman]

Art- we really dont even "own" what we own--- we manage our property and pay taxes on it-- what happens if you dont pay your property tax? They take "your" property!

Now, you be a good little boy and do what you are told.

[mkjeepers]

Patty,

We both love the outdoors and the mine areas. I also know that you have a specific interest in bats and there preservation. In some parts of the country the mine and cave systems are major breeding and habitat areas. that is not the case here in the high desert. I have been inside 80+ mines in the Lucerne Valley, Ord Mountains, Fry Mountains, and Big Bear Mountain area and have seen a total of 5 bats. We are not talking about families or colonies. 5 bats out of dozens of trips to a total of 80+ mines. The Greenies are using that as an excuse to close mines in the desert and it is totally unfounded in this area. The Sierra Club, Bio-Diversity groups, and so many others want to put our public lands back like they were 200 years ago and pretend history never happened. Make sure we are fighting the right battle locally. We are losing trails and access at a scary rate. This will hit home to others when the MCAGCC takes the Johnson Valley and the Hammers away. Then a whole lot of others will be pissed and then better understand my concern over the places I love and visit so often. Once it is gone it is gone forever!

Mitch

[COLOR="Blue"]Patty, what Mitch has written is correct. I've also been in most of the mines in the high desert area as well as in Death Valley, Joshua Tree and even into Arizona and other mines throughout the state of California - southern & northern.

I have NEVER seen a colony of bats in any mine at all. In fact I have never seen a colony of bats even out of the mines. I know they reside somewhere because they fly around at night.

If, according to the above article, bats contract the virus from bacteria and such from the mine itself,
I don't see how blocking it off to PEOPLE is going to save the bats from contracting the desease. It sounds more like a cleaver excuse to close down access to historical sites.

As Mitch also stated, a person is very lucky to see just one bat, in a outing that covers several mines.
So I can't see how closures to the public is going to help the problem with the bats.

Diseases among many different species such as rabbits, squirrels, coyotes and even plants is common and has been going on for centuries.

mk[/COLOR]

[mkjeepers]

That's one of most offensive pictures I've ever seen. I am extraordinary angry at "my" government. What a F'ng waste of money and needles closure and destruction of the outdoor environment.

[COLOR="Blue"]They did this Nathan so no one would tear up the landscape by driving on it.[/COLOR]

[robk]

The picture of the bulldozed area makes me sick to my stomach -- history (at least the physical manifestation of such) destroyed for no good reason.

I'm seeing more and more gates on mines in increasingly remote areas. In the last decade of exploring mines in the San Gabriel & San Bernardino Mountains and Mojave Desert (into AZ & NV) I've seen less than 10 bats in the mines I've explored -- never more than two in the same mine.

I'll keep taking pictures and documenting the history of these mines the best I can, and I'm glad to see that there are others doing the same.

It's a shame that there is such blatant disregard for our history from so many who either don't care or don't bother to understand and embrace it.

Rob

[jeepdude]

closed mines

Our state representative are bent on closing all mines in california. I am with you-I think it stinks but there are a few that are problems because DUMB people dont know which ones to stay out of! Same as trails, a few screw it up for the rest of us.

[karstic]

Are you entirely sure these mines are on BLM land?

Taking a look at the Victorville BLM Surface Management Map there is a lot of private land in the Oro Grande area.

[Mitch]

As far as I can tell these mines are on BLM land. Of the several adits that were blocked, shafts that were collared and covered, and the 2 acre area that was completly dozed, they were done in exactly the same way. The locations stretched for over a mile apart. Also the road was graded in between sites. I had hoped to see a BLM Ranger patroling but we didn't see a soul for the 3 hours we were out there. I will try to get over to the BLM Field Office on Hwy 247 in Barstow and ask some question. I also carry a couple of business cards from BLM folks that I have met. and will get more info.

[ocTJ]

If it was private land most anyone that's going to buy out in those parts would be buying acreage by the Hundreds of Acres

[jpflat2a]

I'm sure it's driven by safety concerns more than anything else.
With populations increasing and the sites getting more and more visitors, it's just a matter of time before tragedy strikes...
I don't agree with the surface soil destruction though, that's uncalled for and makes it look worse.