Trail Discussion: Holcomb creek

[Rawkon]

any news on the trail eventually reopening???

[Matt2001TJ]

any news on the trail eventually reopening???

My favorite,...I WISH....

[Mike]

Well, based on what I know, that is hard to say. MJR's AAT group is doing regular maintenance on the trail, but the area is very badly burned on the East end.

As of last summer, the trail could be traveled from end-to-end, but the winter probably fell many dead trees on or near the trail. My guess is that we will have to work hard to make it passable again.

Regardless, the trail follows a 'Wild and Scenic River' according to the National Forest Service designation. This river is Holcomb Creek. The designation makes this a protected environment whether it is burned or not.

With that said, the rest of this is wholely my OWN opinion and belief. It is based on the experiences that I have had in the forest and can not be supported by any authority.

I feel that with all of the underbrush burned away, the possibility of unauthorized trails being carved by unknowing trail-users is high. Trail abuse of this kind is the real danger. With the area being so sensitive from an environmental standpoint, one guy's "hey watch this" attitude could get the trail closed forever if it was opened too soon.

The Forest Service has repeatedly demonstrated it's concern for both the environment and it's desire to re-open trails again as soon as possible. I am sure that the USFS will open the trail as soon as they feel that the area is safe for regular OHV use.

Unfortunately, the living San Bernardino Forest is slow to repair itself due to our climate and habitat. We will need to be patient and support the recovery efforts in every way if we hope to see this trail re-opened in the near future.

Just my :2:

[karstic]

Regardless, the trail follows a 'Wild and Scenic River' according to the National Forest Service designation. This river is Holcomb Creek. The designation makes this a protected environment whether it is burned or not.

Could you provide a reference or documentation on this?

[karstic]

Could you provide a reference or documentation on this?

Found it

page 352 of this pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/scfpr/projec...enicrivers.pdf

[Mike]

Found it

page 352 of this pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/scfpr/projec...enicrivers.pdf

Dude! I appreciate that you checked my facts, but I really hope that you didn't read that whole document just to get to the relevent pages!

Hope to see you on the trails soon Bro!

[dirtman13]

I feel that with all of the underbrush burned away, the possibility of unauthorized trails being carved by unknowing trail-users is high. Trail abuse of this kind is the real danger. With the area being so sensitive from an environmental standpoint, one guy's "hey watch this" attitude could get the trail closed forever if it was opened too soon.

That's exactly what Greg told me.

karstic, thanks for posting that. It has some great info.

[OU812]

I’ve never seen that document. This quote is a little disappointing.
Also on page 352
"Determination: The creek corridor possesses no outstandingly remarkable recreation values."

[Mike]

I’ve never seen that document. This quote is a little disappointing.
Also on page 352
"Determination: The creek corridor possesses no outstandingly remarkable recreation values."

Ha! Yeah, I was a little offended by that when I read it too. That document is really cool though. Thanks for posting the link, kartic.

[USMC 0369]

Dude! I appreciate that you checked my facts, but I really hope that you didn't read that whole document just to get to the relevent pages!

Hope to see you on the trails soon Bro!

[COLOR="Sienna"]Mike,

Dude...It's a .pdf..... search "Holcomb Creek"

just pokin fun at ya.

GREAT Document, saved to my "SBNF Info" folder. Thanks Karstic.[/COLOR]

[Old Fart]

You're hitting the nail on the head. Reopening the road will be partially based on AAT's efforts in cleaning up the road - but the biggest contribution has to come from mother nature.

Well, based on what I know, that is hard to say. MJR's AAT group is doing regular maintenance on the trail, but the area is very badly burned on the East end.

As of last summer, the trail could be traveled from end-to-end, but the winter probably fell many dead trees on or near the trail. My guess is that we will have to work hard to make it passable again.

Regardless, the trail follows a 'Wild and Scenic River' according to the National Forest Service designation. This river is Holcomb Creek. The designation makes this a protected environment whether it is burned or not.

With that said, the rest of this is wholely my OWN opinion and belief. It is based on the experiences that I have had in the forest and can not be supported by any authority.

I feel that with all of the underbrush burned away, the possibility of unauthorized trails being carved by unknowing trail-users is high. Trail abuse of this kind is the real danger. With the area being so sensitive from an environmental standpoint, one guy's "hey watch this" attitude could get the trail closed forever if it was opened too soon.

The Forest Service has repeatedly demonstrated it's concern for both the environment and it's desire to re-open trails again as soon as possible. I am sure that the USFS will open the trail as soon as they feel that the area is safe for regular OHV use.

Unfortunately, the living San Bernardino Forest is slow to repair itself due to our climate and habitat. We will need to be patient and support the recovery efforts in every way if we hope to see this trail re-opened in the near future.

Just my :2:

[USMC 0369]

You're hitting the nail on the head. Reopening the road will be partially based on AAT's efforts in cleaning up the road - but the biggest contribution has to come from mother nature.

[COLOR="Sienna"]Which is why MJR AAT is going to pimp Greg, Jeff, Doug, Kurt and anyone else with influence, to let us do our own "Forest Aid" type planting along 3n93 before the planting season ends. Right guys!??[/COLOR]

[karstic]

[COLOR="Sienna"]Mike,

Dude...It's a .pdf..... search "Holcomb Creek"

just pokin fun at ya.

GREAT Document, saved to my "SBNF Info" folder. Thanks Karstic.[/COLOR]

Excactly. Just a little clarification on that document. That report covers the four SoCal forests, Angeles, Los Padres, Cleveland and San Berdoo. Being the managing agency, the FS was charged with finding which "rivers" would be suitable for a "Wild and Scenic" designation. Only Congress or the Secretary of the Interior can make the official designation.

Holcomb Creek currently does not have a designation under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act. What does concern me is what classifications have been made by the FS. They have broken Holcomb Creek into two segments. Segment One which is the creek from the ranch in Holcomb Valley to the road crossing at 3N16 hase been found suitable for a "Scenic" designation. Segment Two which goes from 3N16 to the confluence with Deep Creek and has been found suitable for a "Wild" designation. A portion of this segment parallels 3N93. Thats where my concern lies.

There are three designations that a river can fall under wild, scenic and recreational. Wild is the most primitive/least altered/least accesible, recreational is a the opposite end of the spectrum. I would think that the segment that parallels 3N93 should have received a "Scenic" rating.

I think this document was part of the Forest Plan Process that went on for the last few years.

We have to keep vigilant to see if Holcomb Creek pops up in any new Wilderness Legislation to be designated as a WSA.

[USMC 0369]

Excactly. Just a little clarification on that document. That report covers the four SoCal forests, Angeles, Los Padres, Cleveland and San Berdoo. Being the managing agency, the FS was charged with finding which "rivers" would be suitable for a "Wild and Scenic" designation. Only Congress or the Secretary of the Interior can make the official designation.

Holcomb Creek currently does not have a designation under the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act. What does concern me is what classifications have been made by the FS. They have broken Holcomb Creek into two segments. Segment One which is the creek from the ranch in Holcomb Valley to the road crossing at 3N16 hase been found suitable for a "Scenic" designation. Segment Two which goes from 3N16 to the confluence with Deep Creek and has been found suitable for a "Wild" designation. A portion of this segment parallels 3N93. Thats where my concern lies.

There are three designations that a river can fall under wild, scenic and recreational. Wild is the most primitive/least altered/least accesible, recreational is a the opposite end of the spectrum. I would think that the segment that parallels 3N93 should have received a "Scenic" rating.

I think this document was part of the Forest Plan Process that went on for the last few years.

We have to keep vigilant to see if Holcomb Creek pops up in any new Wilderness Legislation to be designated as a WSA.

[COLOR="Sienna"]I can see your logic, but would "scenic" mandate allowance for camping, picnic areas, rest-rooms and etc? If that's the case, I could understand why FS wouldn't want that designation.
Of course the concern is that anyone could use "wild" as leverage to close 3n93 permanently; but I have to believe that issue was addressed.[/COLOR]

[karstic]

[COLOR="Sienna"]I can see your logic, but would "scenic" mandate allowance for camping, picnic areas, rest-rooms and etc? If that's the case, I could understand why FS wouldn't want that designation.
Of course the concern is that anyone could use "wild" as leverage to close 3n93 permanently; but I have to believe that issue was addressed.[/COLOR]

I don't know. It would seem from reading some of the criteria in the posted pdf that the Recreational designation would allow for those uses. In the first few pages of the pdf there is a table of criteria of how a river would warrant a given designation.