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  • A thought for debate

    I know many here have spent countless hours with the various efforts to keep off-roading trails open. I appreciate those efforts and don't want to take anything away from them. It seems that with all those efforts and the monies collected, we are still losing ground. It's not working, it is only slowing the process down. I believe our grandkids will only be able to off-road in private, for-profit parks.

    I think the time is right to go on the offensive, and take our issues to the people. It's time for protesting with peaceful disobedience. What if off-roaders of all types, all across the nation on a given day converged on a recently closed trail or area and drove on that closed trail or area? Politely sign the tickets and politely disobey. Swamp the courts and refuse to settle without your right to an individual hearing. Get into the national media.

    People are sick of government control of all types. People are sick of the climate change preachers and greenie hypocrites.

    How many times have we seen a tree hugger chained to a tree in violation of the law, in order to prevent or delay it from being cut? It gets media attention. It works for them. People strapped together blocking a road in a unlawful protest over (abortion, pro-life, gay/lesbian rights, racial rights, Hummer sales, whatever). It works. They get media attention and politicians become afraid to cross them. They become a force to be reckoned with, even if they are a small minority. They get heard.

    We get used. Every program we have to fight closure comes across as apologetic for what we do. We are willing to bend over backwards if they will just be nice to us. Like we are doing something wrong and are begging them to let us get away with it. It's our land, we have a right to use it. Period. No apologies. If a fight is what they want, then don't be nice about it.

    Remember the Boston Tea Party? It was a group of disgruntled criminals to some. It was a group of citizens standing against government oppression to others. I want to throw some tea off the boat. I want to tell the government to kiss off. I think Americans have a historic obligation to stand in defiance of politicians, after legal attempts have failed. The off-road communities attempts have failed.

    I am not a radical, anarchy rules type of guy. But we are not feared or respected as a group. The politicians know about us, but they don't care. We have no teeth. We've been submissive too long.

    No disrespect meant to anyone. I thank those who put their time and effort into fighting for the off-road community. I don't believe the land grabs are about protecting the land, they are about politicians controlling every aspect of the citizen's lives.

  • #2
    My first thought when reading this was "good idea"! My second thought was "I have too much to loose".

    These tree huggers you speak of are willing to be arrested, lose their jobs, etc. for their cause. I'm not willing to do any of those. I try my hardest by donating time and money. Most off-roaders (at least the "good" ones) are like me. They have careers, homes, families, and too much to loose by resorting to the methods you describe. (Disclaimer, I'm sure there's plenty of "tree huggers" who have careers and won't resort to strapping themselves to trees, but they're not the topic of our current discussion).

    If I was a tree-hugger barista who worked at starbucks, I wouldn't care if I lost a week's work (and my job) for strapping myself to a tree, then spending a night in jail. I would just find a new job a week later at wally-world.

    I actually think this could hurt the cause because of the image it creates.

    Bad Tree Hugger - Straps self to tree, they're so caring! (left-wing spin)
    Good Tree Hugger - Donates to "sierra club" and others

    Bad Off-roader - Doesn't respect closures
    Good Off-roader - Doesn't respect closures (even if it's one day as a protest, gotta remember there will be left-wing spin on the news coverage)
    Last edited by Materdaddy; 10-28-10, 01:18 PM. Reason: s/careers/families/
    If we aren't supposed to eat animals, then why are they made out of meat?

    http://jeep.matandtiff.com/

    Truth is treason in the empire of lies. -Ron Paul

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    • #3
      Agreed it could hurt the cause. Without something changing I think it is already a lost cause. Thanks for the opinion, that is what I'm looking for.

      I don't think anyone would get locked up, but would definately get some fines and days off work for court appearances. As for the image it creates, I think nowadays anyone that challenges government control creates a positive image.
      Last edited by mrthieba; 10-28-10, 12:04 PM. Reason: more added

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      • #4
        Think of it this way: You say we've been submissive for too long. How long have you been advocating for offroader's rights vs. how long has it taken for the system to become corrupted? The latter is probably much longer.

        Hang in there. It can be frustrating at times, and we are making progress, but we're definitely not going to see any change over night. I can tell you that good things are happening across this state. The liberal media just doesn't like to cover "our type" of good news.

        P.S. Don't forget about this thread: http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17872
        :gun:'99 TJ Sport:gun:

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        • #5
          I'm right there with Mat . . . I've just got too much to lose. I'm not willing to risk criminal charges, huge fines, getting my Jeep impounded (and a laudry list of VC violations that they'd probably tack on while they are at it for my tires that stick out too far, yada yada yada). I'd be happy to cheer others on, but I personally wouldn't resort to these methods.
          That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

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          • #6
            Sarah, I agree that if we can elect officials who really believe in less government control, then we stand a fighting chance through politics. In my lifetime the Republican party has either moved toward more govmnt control, or has been ineffective at stopping that move. I don't see a real change coming soon.

            Schmo,,,thanks. I understand. I am at a place in life where I could risk it and would, but only with a reasonable expectation of accomplishing the goal.

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            • #7
              Well,
              I know where the frustration comes from, no doubt. While I am sort of a anarchy, screw the gov sort of person, I don't make rash decisions. Most of the time...
              I have some questions for you:
              • How long have you been thinking this up?
              • Do you volunteer or contribute to BRC, Cal4Wheel?
              • Have you spoken to a lawyer about the legal ramifications of these types of actions?
              • Do you have a specific plan (specific trail, organization to protest, etc)?

              I have no problem getting thrown in jail overnight, and I doubt that would happen unless we get ugly. Fines are always a possibilty and could be steep.

              The reason I ask is because while on the surface this seems like it may be a good idea, with out the proper planning it is just plain dangerous to us and our sport. I would think that driving a closed trail will not get you much tv exposure anyway, it has to be a government official's office or even the capitol in Sacramento. Who except us really cares about a trail out "there" somewhere?
              [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
              [/COLOR]Join the Resistance...
              http://www.resistanceoffroad.us[/CENTER]

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              • #8
                1) Thinking about it for a while. But I suppose the recent magazine cover stories about "can they make off-roading illegal" got me thinking more about it. The answer is "yes".
                2) Nope I don't. I can say that everytime I go out dirtbiking or jeeping I take out more trash than I brought in. I'm not knocking them,,glad they are there. Not against giving to them, just don't see it as a good return on investment. ( I hope that wasn't a personal jab. My donations are through church and other charities)

                3)I talk to lawyers 4o hrs per week. Remember I said "peaceful" and "polite". The idea is to get the cite...in mass numbers to draw attention. Many bad laws have been changed by someone violating that law intentionally and being sent to court. After losing, the case can be brought to appeals court and then the law can be changed.
                4)No specific plans made. I only brought this up for discussion. I know similar methods have been successfully used in the past by other groups. I think it could be a viable idea.

                The exposure would have to come from media involvement. We have plenty of well-spoken, educated, respected individuals in our ranks who could give a media interview that would put a positive light on our point of view.

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                • #9
                  How bout we all join the Sierra club? Start a fraction from within.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1 Bad F N Z View Post
                    How bout we all join the Sierra club? Start a fraction from within.
                    There used to be a 4x4 segment within the Sierra Club. Had rallies, club runs, everything. This was only 15 years ago...prior to Boxster and Fienstien.
                    Off road adventure photography:

                    TreadLightly Trainer
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mrthieba View Post
                      In my lifetime the Republican party has either moved toward more govmnt control, or has been ineffective at stopping that move. I don't see a real change coming soon.
                      It's coming, my friend. There are many people working across this state to fix that. Hopefully I will have some good news with the election reports tomorrow. If not, we'll keep duplicating ourselves and have another run at it in a couple of years.
                      :gun:'99 TJ Sport:gun:

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nwoods View Post
                        There used to be a 4x4 segment within the Sierra Club. Had rallies, club runs, everything. This was only 15 years ago...prior to Boxster and Fienstien.
                        This is true. I rarely admit this in public but I was a SC volunteer. I realized the prevailing attitude was quickly changing from land stewardship to "just close it all" and keep the bad people [offroaders, Mbikers,ATVs] off the land. bailed out fast and never looked back.
                        [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
                        [/COLOR]Join the Resistance...
                        http://www.resistanceoffroad.us[/CENTER]

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                        • #13
                          if we could join the sierra club without giving them any more money... that would not be so bad, enough numbers and we might be able to do something- but that is the root of the problem, numbers! very few of us off roaders actually give a rat's and only some of those are active about the trails.

                          I care all kinds about the trails and I have not been able to put the adopt a trail stuff on my priority list for over a year now. I think the problem is our Hobby. If we make political activism our hobbie like so many other groups do then we might have a chance. Think about the groups that are the most politically active- they are getting things done for their political ajendas because they don't do anything else! Political activism IS their hobbie and they have all of their free time to put their bent into it. We just really want to go wheelin' or wrench on our heep.
                          :gun: my rifle is not illegal, it's just undocumented... :gun:

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kodiak Spirit View Post
                            Think about the groups that are the most politically active- they are getting things done for their political ajendas because they don't do anything else! Political activism IS their hobbie and they have all of their free time to put their bent into it. We just really want to go wheelin' or wrench on our heep.
                            True,
                            but there is a thing called time management. Wheel some, love the family some (all the time some) be an activist some, wrench the heep some, volunteer some. Balance is a good thing and not that hard to acheive. If we had the motivated numbers of off roaders this would be a no brainer.
                            [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
                            [/COLOR]Join the Resistance...
                            http://www.resistanceoffroad.us[/CENTER]

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