USFS Adventure Tax

[Kodiak Spirit]

Well, my next project will be a 2,500gal skunky pumper with 2-1/2 ton axles, Cummins Diesel w/a twin stick Stakk box on 40" Boggers! That, and a fat Gov'mnt contract an' maybe I can get paid to play!

[Max7]

Contract

I want to do that too, Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...Gov'mnt Contract!
Best, Max7

Well, my next project will be a 2,500gal skunky pumper with 2-1/2 ton axles, Cummins Diesel w/a twin stick Stakk box on 40" Boggers! That, and a fat Gov'mnt contract an' maybe I can get paid to play!

[OU812]

Didn't you guys know?
-
Freedom isn't free
It costs folks like you and me
Freedom costs a buck 0 five.
-
I didn't know that song was factual. Its a shame.

[bruce p]

You all make good points on the fee. It irks me to pay a fee to hire people to enforce the payment of the fee, which is what rangers in Los Padres and Angeles NF say have happened.

On the other hand, since the adoption of the fee program in Angeles, it seems to me that there are markedly fewer people in the forest (except on snow days of course). The people who are there have largely paid to be there, want to be there, and aren't there just because it's a free thing to do on a Saturday. This translates into a more respectful crowd that actually puts their garbage in the trash can etc.

As one example, when the forest was free, I spent a fair amount of time fishing diapers rather than fish out of the creek at Switzer. It doesn't seem to happen as much now.

[Max7]

Grizzly Manor sticker caught my eye.

Big Bear,CA

[Max7]

Obesity tax...

The answer to everything is not a tax. Taxing people to "act right" is the problem.

"New York Governor, David Paterson, is reported as proposing a 15% tax on sugar-sweetened sodas, calling it an obesity tax. That makes it sound like it has a noble intention of public health concerns over obesity, when, as the Financial Times noted, it’s really just a way to raise money to help address the state’s $13.3 billion deficit...
Sodas, sweet drinks or sweets don't cause obesity, nor has cutting soda been found to do anything to reduce obesity." There are so many things wrong with this example, I don't know where to start!

We should focus on family education, discipline and enforcement for the "bigger children". As far as keeping the forests clean, unfortunately there will always be littering from pigs that have no self respect, let alone respect for others. That is why we volunteer to organize trash pick up's.

Tax on sugar-sweetened sodas and forest tax / Adventure Pass fees may be different to some. If we continue to allow ourselves to be taxed for things that we already have access to, or freedom to make a decision to consume as part of the liberty of an American, what is stopping us from giving all of our rights for the good of all? That is not the America I want to live in.
Limit Government. Open the forest that we already pay taxes for. If it is said, that there is not enough money, we need to help direct our government with their financial decisions by voting Dianne Feinstein, Barbara Boxer out of office to start. I will never buy an Adventure Pass, I am always Prospecting for gold and having a religious experience, but I always bring a trash bag.

Best, Max7

[Ol Man]

I guess I am a little different than most on this issue and went to a number of meetings up in Santa Barbara/Goleta a lot of years ago; and you can imagine how those meetings went! Being an OHV person in that crowd was interesting, altho the Adventure Pass was not the reason I went to the meeting. I want access to all of my OHV areas and the Adventure Pass does not stop me from going and in fact, has provided funds for the local forests to maintain campgrounds etc. Guess some want to argue percentages of return, etc, but the money is spent locally. I would rather put my energy towards fighting the land use issue. I always carry a bunch of them in my four wheel vehicles, so I don't have to run around looking to buy one. They do not expire and are only $5. In my opinion, play this game and fight the bigger battles. We are looking at having JV shut down, loss of a lot of area in Red Rock Canyon, closing down of the Truckhaven area, more of the Rand Mountains, etc. Plenty of battles to fight.

[Old Fart]

Give the (Ol) Man a prize - he's figured it out!

[Ol Man]

And here is a link to the USFS site for the Adventure Pass:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardin...tml#exceptions

[Beatrice]

I at one time was kinda confused about this fee also, then one day while on a outing with Greg Hoffman we stopped at the Pinnacles area and had a few minutes so I went and used a nice outhouse, brick with stainless seats. I remember they used to have those plastic beat up and vandalized ones there. He pointed out to me those had been built with Adventure Pass money.
I then saw the return to the forest that benefited me. I now look at the fee in a different way. I just get over it. It seems that congress is funding less and less to projects like this, instead voting in funding for stupid projects that are done for special interest. The Adventure fee may not sound nice, but it keeps the funds in the forest, not going for a community center for descendent's of Slavic immigrants who married the offspring of Spanish explorers in Nome Alaska.

[Max7]

Not surrendering

With all due respect I have already written those letters. I will continue fighting those battles, but in addition, personally don't agree with paying taxes twice due to mismanaged government monies. I think it's great that some of the FAP taxes pay for fancy new bathrooms. Well done. It will have to be proven to me that I should accept this system. I don't and I will fight big battles too. It's just not that hard to do. Vote.
Best, Max7

[Mike]

Also not surrendering...

I love you Max, but I say...

BUY an annual forest pass to help Greg Hoffman and the rest of the team that support the offroad community in the National Forests,

AND THEN, vote to help Feinstein and Boxer out... of OFFICE that is!

I am at a loss as to why these two are still allowed to make decisions without the expess written permission of their guardians. Ask Rat Patrol about his conversation with the rancher that owns the land at the top of Rattlesnake Canyon about his personal experience with Feinstein. She quite obviously hasn't got a clue about the areas that she pushes to be closed!

Support those that need it, and rip the rug out from under those that MAKE them need it. It's a hard fight. Don't lose sight of your allies.

[Mitch]

I hope that I get a chance to speak to Bill at the Ranch in Rattlesnake Canyon this morning as we cruise thru. Sounds like a good guy. I would like to propose that we send some of our aging nuke supply over to Feinstein and Boxer's offices so that they don't continue to screw us out of more of our rights, more of our publc land, all under the guise of protecting us from ourselves.

Mitch

[Max7]

Band aid for a flawed system

I love you Max, but I say...

BUY an annual forest pass to help Greg Hoffman and the rest of the team that support the offroad community in the National Forests,

AND THEN, vote to help Feinstein and Boxer out... of OFFICE that is!

I am at a loss as to why these two are still allowed to make decisions without the expess written permission of their guardians. Ask Rat Patrol about his conversation with the rancher that owns the land at the top of Rattlesnake Canyon about his personal experience with Feinstein. She quite obviously hasn't got a clue about the areas that she pushes to be closed!

Support those that need it, and rip the rug out from under those that MAKE them need it. It's a hard fight. Don't lose sight of your allies.

I understand the game, I just don't think we should have to play it. This is not a case of "two sides" It is just wrong. We should get local money designated from the fed and state levels. I assume we weren't and instated the Adventure Pass. Good idea in a pinch, but we should not have had to do it. It is a band aid for a flawed system, and we are made to pay the price. I am aware of the fact that the Country and state are bankrupt, and that we will not see these kind of funds from them for another decade, but I want accountability and there is none. Causematically this "bandaid" may be stretched for a long time.
If you say that the Adventure Pass is a way to "help Greg Hoffman and the rest of the team that support the offroad community in the National Forests", I'm frustrated for every one who HAS to buy an Adventure Pass. I'll continue to help in my own way by being one of the offroad community that stays politically active by voting, and volunteers his time to the forest.
Best, Max7

[dirtman13]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the forest service didn't collect the fees we wouldn't have bulldozers helping us on the AAT, new trees to plant in April, gabion baskets to repair our trails, wire to block off illegal trails, etc. More importantly we wouldn't have Greg or Jeff.

edit: and Doug