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**RAT** · 03-05-08, 02:41 PM

I sent Mr. Klaski an email

Here it is:
Mr. Klaski,
I read your article (March 5 edition of the High Desert star), about the issues you have with the ORV riders in your area. I, myself am a responsible off road enthusiast, and I hate to hear when this type of activity takes place. I understand the frustration you express with toe ORV users, and law enforcement. I feel that same frustration in your description of these off roaders as �thugs and bullies�, only because the readers of your paper will more likely than not see this as a blanket statement of off road enthusiasts. You mention that you know who these people are, yet you do not make any clear statement that these particular people are perpetrating these alleged violations (no names); your comments lead me, and others who read your story, to believe that all off road enthusiasts are vile, law breaking idiots. That couldn�t be farther from the case. I am personally involved in the San Bernardino Volunteer Trail Maintenance teams (AAT) and know many hundreds of others who are as well. I and many of my friends spend a lot of our free time in the Johnson Valley OHV area, enjoying the trails and scenery that it has to offer. We wheel in the exact same areas that you mention in your article, and have never been approached by locals, law enforcement officers, or BLM personnel, other than to talk to us about our equipment and what we like to do. We routinely clean these areas; the most recent organized event was at Calico Ghost Town. Over 1000 off roaders attended this event and removed tons of garbage, left there by people who have nothing to do with off roading other than that is what they have to do to get rid of the garbage. We intend to choose other areas to clean up in the coming months and years. It is our stance that we have to maintain the areas we recreate in, not only for us, but for all who want to enjoy what these areas have to offer. I�m sure that if you would invite us out to these areas, we would bring a work crew the size of Texas and get rid of the trash, donut marks and other things that these less compassionate people leave behind. We are responsible people that have a love of off roading, and we don�t want to see that go away any more than you want to be accosted by thugs. There is a resource out there that you can tap to help you and your neighbors; we are that source. The few bad apples can not be allowed to ruin it for everyone.

Please, if you have any interest in contacting us, use any of these contact venues:
[COLOR=#800080]http://www.myjeeprocks.com/forums/index.php[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#0000ff]diverk@hotmail.com[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#800080]http://www.clean-dezert.org/[/COLOR]

Or you can call or email at the address below.

Thank you, and I hope to hear from soon,

[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Kurt Kauffman[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Western Service Manager[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Busch LLC.[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']13826 Struikman Road[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Cerritos[/FONT][FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif'], CA 90703[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Office 562-926-8422[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Fax 562-926-7262[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Cell 562-244-1414[/FONT]
[FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif']Email [/FONT][FONT='Microsoft Sans Serif'][COLOR=#0000ff]kkauffman@buschusa.com[/COLOR][/FONT]

**USMC 0369** · 03-05-08, 03:20 PM

I can't get any further information on tonights meeting, so I'm going to let that one go.

Kurt,

Outstanding job. Good relay of our position of "Yes, there are idiots out there mucking things up, WE are trying to stop them as well." And reinforcement that the off-road community in large are good people. We do A LOT of work trying to keep public lands open to the public. I wish he'd have actually caught the people on private lands and had them prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. But, he didn't. Read this fellow's background to include the YouTube videos of him.

I must post this rebuttal that posted in the same paper days after Mr. Klasky's editorial was posted.

**Kodiak Spirit** · 03-05-08, 03:57 PM

wow, that's a nice rebuttal. I tire of the finger pointing lefties that cry about the "bad people." they never have any names and they are allways the victims and they can never do anything about it on their own, they allways cry about how law enforcement can't do enough, or the politicians dont hear their cries... and these same people are afraid of guns and big 4x4s and motorcycles... they are limp wristed sissies and the govornment is down on one knee bending their ear to them. It makes me sick. and it looks like the pied piper for these bastards is gonna be the next president. I wanna puke.

sorry. rant over.

oh, but I went to the OHV plate link and signed up. the only thing is, I will be getting 4 plates, one set fer each vehicle... but I can only sign once?

**Roger** · 03-05-08, 04:49 PM

It seems like every day someone new pops up to close public lands.

Kurt & Nick, great writing. Thanks

**USMC 0369** · 03-05-08, 05:04 PM

Hold on Roger...

I didnt do the legwork on it, so I don't want to post anything and steal his thunder, but this group is anti-illegal off-roading. But lumps us all together, or certain members of www.orvwatch.com do that.

Blaine...hurry and post on the JV thread...I'm all giddy!

**Dave84cj7** · 03-05-08, 05:08 PM

These nuts even have their own songs and their own "Cow Players" to perform them. I don't know if these types can be reasonable.

http://www.orvwatch.com/node/12

**mrblaine** · 03-05-08, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by USMC 0369 View Post

Hold on Roger...

I didnt do the legwork on it, so I don't want to post anything and steal his thunder, but this group is anti-illegal off-roading. But lumps us all together, or certain members of www.orvwatch.com do that.

Blaine...hurry and post on the JV thread...I'm all giddy!

Most pleasant and encouraging news. I just got off the phone with a member of the steering committee for this organization.

http://www.orvwatch.com/pages/about_us.html

They were unaware that there were any plans for encroachment into the JV area by the military. They absolutely want JV kept open and intact.

That consider that their best avenue for stopping illegal ORV use on private and public lands. If they can re-direct and educate riders and abusers to the proper areas to recreate, that is a huge benefit to all parties involved.

It's far better for them to have a legal place to ride than to be shut down completely. We all know that only leads to more illegal activities.

The member I spoke with says he will bring this to the attention of the other members and they will develop a plan of action to assist in keeping JV open and intact.

I was very pleased.

There you go, copy and paste as needed.

**mrblaine** · 03-05-08, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by Dave84cj7 View Post

These nuts even have their own songs and their own "Cow Players" to perform them. I don't know if these types can be reasonable.

http://www.orvwatch.com/node/12

Be careful how you judge, sometimes what's on the cover, ain't in the book.

**Dave84cj7** · 03-05-08, 05:42 PM

Well I hope you're right.I will retract my "nuts and "unreasonable" comments since you have spoken with them and feel otherwise. You are certainly more informed on the issue than I am.

**RAT** · 03-05-08, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Dave84cj7 View Post

Well I hope you're right.I will retract my "nuts and "unreasonable" comments since you have spoken with them and feel otherwise. You are certainly more informed on the issue than I am.

Yes, thank you. Please be careful not to employ the same tactics that this gentleman does; lables and pidgeon-holing does no one any good.

Blaine, Thanks for the news.

**mrblaine** · 03-05-08, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Kodiak Spirit View Post

wow, that's a nice rebuttal. I tire of the finger pointing lefties that cry about the "bad people." they never have any names and they are allways the victims and they can never do anything about it on their own, they allways cry about how law enforcement can't do enough, or the politicians dont hear their cries... and these same people are afraid of guns and big 4x4s and motorcycles... they are limp wristed sissies and the govornment is down on one knee bending their ear to them. It makes me sick. and it looks like the pied piper for these bastards is gonna be the next president. I wanna puke.

sorry. rant over.

oh, but I went to the OHV plate link and signed up. the only thing is, I will be getting 4 plates, one set fer each vehicle... but I can only sign once?

It's a semi-nice rebuttal. Unfortunately, the use of the word "many" in the title is as misleading as lumping all OHV users in the same category as the miscreants.

The word should be "Majority" as that is the truth. The majority of OHV users recreate responsibly in designated areas and do so with no supervision other than their own desire to set the example for those who would pay attention and want to learn.

**mrblaine** · 03-05-08, 07:50 PM

Let's turn an objective eye upon this-

This last President's Birthday holiday weekend, ORV riders engaged in wholesale trespass and destruction of public and private lands throughout the Morongo Basin as residents were left helpless and abandoned by law enforcement. The results, according to our review of the aftermath (check out the photos at our Web site www.orvwatch.com) is both shocking and disheartening.

Who here on this board hasn't felt the same way after working with the Forest Service doing repairs to block off illegal trails, or, driving by some of the areas that have been ravaged by OHV users in illegal areas?

Not taking sides, but it appears in this case, his opinion is fairly earned.

We warned both the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) ahead of time that the same outlaws, just like years before, would be gathering at specific sites in the Landers, Flamingo Heights, Morongo Valley, Yucca Valley, Joshua Tree and Wonder Valley areas.

Sounds to me like they are being pro-active based on the events of years past and I don't get the impression that he's pointing a finger at me because I don't participate in outlaw behaviors out there

From these staging areas, where there is generally a lot of drinking (and who knows what else), noise and dust and riding at all hours of the day and night, these riders rage in convoys and trespass on both private and public land with impunity.

He could have left out the speculation about who knows what else, but based on what I've seen in JV at Thanksgiving, sounds like he's describing a few camps we've moved away from, except for the trespass part.

This year the destruction exceeded all others with extensive damage to private property and criminal trespass of clearly signed wilderness areas. You can see purposeful trespass, �donuts� cut into the ground, right next to �no trespassing� and wilderness boundary signs as riders flagrantly defy the law. These scars will last for decades or longer and are the result of a weekend of reckless ORV play.

Who on this board thinks it okay to trespass and cause destruction in clearly signed wilderness areas?

Those of us who have either confronted these riders, or have called law enforcement on them have been threatened and personally attacked. The Sheriff's Department has told us they don't have the manpower to respond and the BLM ignored our calls, letters and e-mails for help.

The gentleman I spoke with today stated that he had been attacked while employing a tactic that is highly recommended to anyone who witnesses illegal activity on the 'Con, or elsewhere. He had a camera and was taking their pictures while they were trespassing.

To make matters worse, the state ORV division just denied the San Bernardino Sheriff's Department Yucca Valley branch badly needed law enforcement dollars over a political fight between government bureaucracies.

Don't know enough to comment. But if the dollars are needed for enforcement, I can understand the frustration. Personally, I'd like to see a much higher Ranger presence in JV on the big weekends to calm some folks down a bit. In the 50 or 60 times I've been out there, I've only seen Rangers 3 times.

We have identified many of the violators since they own property in the Hi-Desert for the sole purpose of staging on holiday weekends from where they wreak havoc wherever they want. When one of our members complained to the authorities about ORV trespass and harassment, a group of ten thugs on their quads, sand rails and motorcycles drove over to his house and screamed threats at him.

Who thinks this is appropriate behavior for anyone regardless of whether or not they own land?

They come back year after year and do whatever they want and after they do their dirty work, they go back home.

Would you be happy if you had crappy neighbors that only show up a few times a year to crap in your neighborhood?

Community ORV Watch members have put in thousands of volunteer hours working with law enforcement and elected officials to find constructive solutions to the ORV crisis. We need new elected leadership to turn this situation around and people must exercise their right to vote and speak out.

It is up to residents to start making some big changes and join forces to protect our quality of life.

Sounds to me like they would like to have the outlaw ORV contingent move to a designated legal riding area and away from homes and wilderness areas. If they are working with Law Enforcement, it sure doesn't sound like the folks they are referring to are exactly legal, does it?

Perhaps it is time that we engage in direct action to prevent further destruction of our lands.

He could have done himself more good by leaving that statement out.

The BLM has given up on their responsibility to protect public lands in the Hi-Desert. Invaluable historic, cultural and natural resources are being destroyed by illegal ORV activity. The Sheriff's Department needs funds to be able to hunt down and catch the violators. Local realtors advertise to riders that they can purchase cheap desert land and �bring their toys.� Check out the notices, letters and messages on their Web sites and you will see that ORV riders consider our desert community a free-for-all for illegal activity. On this last president's birthday holiday weekend, they were right.

I'd be a lot more receptive to these comments if he had posted some links so we could see for ourselves. I'm not much of a fan of vigilante-ism and I'd much prefer he wasn't touting it as a possible solution.

I did send links to several boards where these issues are being discussed rationally though. I'll forward a link to this thread as well.

**RAT** · 03-06-08, 08:24 AM

Originally posted by mrblaine View Post

I did send links to several boards where these issues are being discussed rationally though. I'll forward a link to this thread as well.

I agree with your assessment of this story. He has valid complaints but doesn't support them with tangible evidence. I don't agree with the way he writes. It's too general, written in first person experiences instead of a non-biased reporting style (he is a reporter/colunmnist), in a public forum accessable to millions. This is how misunderstanding gets it's start. I've found all kinds of negative publicity about off roaders, the worst of it coming from the people that we (I'm speaking of the volunteers all around SoCal) spend our time helping. Check this link:

http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=953

http://www.peer.org/campaigns/publiclands/orv/index.php

This page links to others. The Rangers of the BLM have thier own group that is using individual incidents to paint a total picture of our sport. It seems that most all of the articles I've read are written by people who have a major hard on for off roaders, and don't seem to care to take the time and look at what the majority of us are about. We need a voice as passionate about our side of the issue as the detractors have for thiers.
And yes, I know that there are bad people in our sport that don't give a damn about the environment, but there a lot more that do.
Rat

**mrblaine** · 03-06-08, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by rat patrol View Post

I agree with your assessment of this story. He has valid complaints but doesn't support them with tangible evidence. I don't agree with the way he writes. It's too general, written in first person experiences instead of a non-biased reporting style (he is a reporter/colunmnist), in a public forum accessable to millions.

Put the shoe on the other foot. I can only relate my wheeling and offroad recreation style in first person experiences, in general terms, and I have no real tangible evidence as proof. The best I can do is talk about it in very biased terms promoting the way I would like to see folks recreate, and hopefully several hundred or so see it and it sinks in to one or two.

This is how misunderstanding gets it's start. I've found all kinds of negative publicity about off roaders, the worst of it coming from the people that we (I'm speaking of the volunteers all around SoCal) spend our time helping. Check this link:
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=953
This page links to others. The Rangers of the BLM have thier own group that is using individual incidents to paint a total picture of our sport. It seems that most all of the articles I've read are written by people who have a major hard on for off roaders, and don't seem to care to take the time and look at what the majority of us are about. We need a voice as passionate about our side of the issue as the detractors have for thiers.
And yes, I know that there are bad people in our sport that don't give a damn about the environment, but there a lot more that do.
Rat

You need to go read those articles again. Read them and replace the word "offroader" with outlaw and they will make sense. They are not talking about you and I, or anyone that I wheel with.

They are talking about resource damage, spark arrestor violations, and venturing into wilderness habitat by not staying on the trails.

They are referencing the same folks that would cause you to be phenomenally irritated if you were to see them participating in the same activities.

What would you do if you saw someone off trail in Big Bear?

Anyone reading those articles needs to find a way to delineate themselves from the cause of the problem, take their emotions out of it and understand the finger of blame is not pointed at them, but at the outlaw offroaders.

If you don't recreate offroad on public lands and in the Forest in an irresponsible manner, then the article is not about you nor are you the reason that PEER exists.

I personally don't condone one single act of reckless offroading and if everyone who owned an offroad vehicle felt and acted the same way, those articles nor PEER would exist.

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