Going INSANE!

[brokenujoint]

Been a PROUD TJ owner of the same TJ for 16 yrs now and the 4 door JK is really keeping me up at night. Seriously contemplating trading up to a 4 dr... could get a good 5k down payment and then sell the TJ for upgrades for the JK... Guys, talk me in or talk me out... pro's/con's.... I need help~

[Mike]

I'm pretty sure that JK stands for "Just Kidding". Most of the folks that seriously wheel their JKs have found a series of issues related to lifting, repairing, and on-the-trail maintenance. Most of the problems relate to the "street-ability" features added for comfort in traffic and road manners.

[dirtman13]

I think it all depends on what your plans are for wheeling. If your looking for a dependable family rig to go camping and exploring in areas like the Sierra's, Colorado, or BB for example go for the JK. If your plans are more of a weekend in the Hammers trying the find the most difficult line then I'd say no (unless you build it in to a buggy).

Myself, I want the best of both worlds so I built mine. If I had the room and the extra cash I would get a JK to use for those more exploratory trips.:2:

[6spdYJ]

Get a used JK, keep the TJ.
The '07 was available with 4.10's without going Rubicon and without the tow package. Trust me, you need at least 4.10's if you run 32's. The auto is okay with those gears.
As far as a mild, yet very driveable build, any maker's 2 1/2" lift in the front is a huge improvement. The stock stuff is too soft and you will spend life slamming form one bump stop to the other. If you do stay that low, you may want to consider a set of stock Rubicon rear springs. I don't recall the full part number, but they end in 60. They are about 1 1/2" higher than the others and have a good rate. Plus, if you only lift the front 2 1/2", you'd have a near flat stance and plenty of room for 35's with a set of flat flares or a little trimming.

[JK08]

Get a used JK, keep the TJ.
The '07 was available with 4.10's without going Rubicon and without the tow package. Trust me, you need at least 4.10's if you run 32's. The auto is okay with those gears.
As far as a mild, yet very driveable build, any maker's 2 1/2" lift in the front is a huge improvement. The stock stuff is too soft and you will spend life slamming form one bump stop to the other. If you do stay that low, you may want to consider a set of stock Rubicon rear springs. I don't recall the full part number, but they end in 60. They are about 1 1/2" higher than the others and have a good rate. Plus, if you only lift the front 2 1/2", you'd have a near flat stance and plenty of room for 35's with a set of flat flares or a little trimming.

Used has to be the way to go with the price tag on those and the flats are not a lie. 2.5 inch lift and flats you are good to run 35's. knowing more now than I did then I may have went with a rubi 4dr. But see below for a base X. The JK stuff is more expensive than any other jeeps so keep that in mind...

Having only owned a 4dr Jeep (2008 Sahara JKU) since September of last year she has done me no wrong yet. I am not yet a hammers guy but my open 4.88s, 4” rough country lift, sliders, bumper, winch, flat fenders on 35s have yet to be seriously stuck. The two times I have been stuck due to bad line choices and they both were an easy tug backwards 3 feet only to pick a better line and make it up that same try. Been thru Calico several times, JB gate keeper up and back down (turned around cause the trail tampons) made it thru Gold mountain 1 time, 3N93 two weekends ago, and made my way without a tug. I am bias as the 4dr is all I have owned but I would never consider anything else. I honestly think that the wheel base has got me thru a ton of stuff where 2dr friends with lockers had a quick stand with almost being stuck I made it right up without even trying. Your rig is as good as you drive it. I am sure the time will come where I really need help (and a 2dr pulls me free) but that time has not come yet.

Pros:
1. Aftermarket parts availability
2. Wheel Base
3. Room/space for more stuff
4. 2012 has a 300HP V6
5. 07-11 has a 200HP V6 120 to the hweels on 35's....
6. Bolt on super charger available for 4K on 07-11 as well as a turbo for 3K...

Cons:
1. Initial price tag base Unlimited X starts at 29K, Base Sahara 35K to 40, Rubis between 45 and 60K depending on factory aftermarket stuff they put on.
2. Aftermarket parts seem overpriced compared to other models
3. Junkyard parts availability is next to nothing and even that comes at a price
4. You will find the extra room is not enough for a family of 4 with proper camping gear.
5. overheating tranny on dirt roads in 2 wheel drive
6. TPMS for some no issue with me
7. Traction control if draglink is not adjusted. again not an issue just part of wheelin for me dont know any other way...

If I had to do it all over I THINK I would Buy a BASE Unlimited X put a D44 in the front with 4.88's for 4K, a Rubicrawler for 1800, some lockers and upgrade the rear with 4.88's thur RWK, toss on some 35's an you should be good for a while. The base model X has steel wheels so they should last a bit longer than the Aluminum stuff on the other models...


Just my two pennies…



Danny

[aw12345]

You want to spend a bunch of money to pamper your self. JK's are a nice upgrade of a TJ comfort wise, But also have a ton of short comings and electronic stuff going on that will give you fits. Like tire monitoring, funky problems with the traction control when you get carried away offroad. Brackets breaking of the rear axle, front axle that needs help. Almost as big a slug as a 4 banger.
It all depends what you are looking for and what you want from it. Your good ole red has pretty much anything you need to terrorize the neighborhood here in So Cali.

[6spdYJ]

The '07's didn't have mandatory TPMS. After that it was standard. However, if the steering wheel isn't perfectly centered - and I mean perfectly - the ESP will chatter your brakes on every on/offramp you hit - even with it "partially disabled". I always thought that was like being "partially pregnant". Back to the gearing/gutless issue... I've heard horror stories of the 42RLE overheating. I wonder how many of these had 4.10's. Ours never has, but I'm sure with the 3.73 - or (what were they thinking!) 3.23's I'm sure you'd be beatin the snot out of that marginal tranny with a mediocre motor just to get it to move. The rear brackets can be beefed up by connecting them to the shock mount and also by adding an additional bracket to reach toward the pumpkin about 8". That method doesn't cost clearance. I made mine out of 3/16" and haven't had any problems with it.

[inVERt'D]

As I mentioned in another thread I had the use of my brother's loaded 4-door JK Rubicon for awhile--like 9 or 10 months. Art's right: it was kind of a dog. Plan on not passing people. For highway speeds I found the auto tranny annoying--always upshifting or downshifting when it shouldn't have needed to. It was noticeably spryer with the soft top than the hard top. Funny, because, the hardtop seemed pretty light. That said, it was probably the most comfortable "real" Jeep I've ever ridden in.

I did enjoy wheeling it. Mud, snow, washes, rocks, and ruts. Nothing hardcore, but for sure some non-trivial stuff. The breakover angle could be a problem, and there's an annoying crossmember behind the front wheels. The turning radius isn't great, and several times those issues got me hung up where my TJ would have gone through no problem. Sometimes I wanted a lower crawl ratio, but boulder patches are really no place for stock Rubibuses anyway. Still it was quite capable, and handy for carrying prospecting gear, etc.

It was nice, no doubt, and I was never embarrassed to be seen in it, but I wouldn't want to trade my TJ for one.

[JK08]

Okay the TPMS does blow but it is just a light that says low tire pressure. and I did forget about the traction control issue. solution to that, carry some tools and adjust your draglink before you drive home. I do... I have 4.88s and my tranny still overheats on dirt roads in 2 wheel drive (definately not drive 40 on a dirt road not a prerunner) found that out on 3n93 this last trip out going back to disco cntr. did it with the stock gears as well drop it in 4lo and it has no issues. not sure if this has been fixed on the 2012. I can live with lights blinking but the trans is an issue that needs to be addressed nothing a trans cooler will not take care of.

Never owned a TJ but I would not consider my 4dr to be pampered.... cloth seats, no lumbar, headreast is hard a$$ rubber, no power mirrors, throw in some heated leather power seats and electronic disconnects and sure then that is pampered...

I updated my cons seem to outweigh the pros now... still like what I got so far.

[DespicableLJ]

Looking to move on from my XJ, early last year I spent nearly 6 months trying to decide between TJ and JK. Price and many other factors came into the decision process. I finally went with a 2006 LJ and feel like I hit the jackpot. It has a little extra space compared to the TJ, but retains the trail capability I desired.

[mkjeepers]

You want to spend a bunch of money to pamper your self. JK's are a nice upgrade of a TJ comfort wise, But also have a ton of short comings and electronic stuff going on that will give you fits. Like tire monitoring, funky problems with the traction control when you get carried away offroad. Brackets breaking of the rear axle, front axle that needs help. Almost as big a slug as a 4 banger.
It all depends what you are looking for and what you want from it. Your good ole red has pretty much anything you need to terrorize the neighborhood here in So Cali.

Art, what you sayin..............is right..... The 07 to 11 did feel like a 4 cylinder, but i did manage to pass a semi once in a while. The ESP has been a problem. My 07 had 4:11's and stock 32's and I never had a tranny overheating problem. The new 2012 has a factory trans cooler in front of the radiator.

That said, the JK is very quiet and comfortable on and off road. I found the 2 door to be very trail capable with just a 3" lift and open diff's. I've taken the JK on just about any trail I desired, including laying out the Cougar Buttes trails back in the beginning.

The 2012 has some vast improvements over the 07-11 model. On our last trip to the Sierra's I was getting 21.5 mpg going to Bishop, 17 int the back country and 19.5 coming back with a 50mph head wind.

With The 2012 trans you pretty much put it in drive and leave it there. Like inVERT said with the 07 auto you're constantly manually shifting.

IMO the JK now is a worthwhile vehicle to build. It can be an all around vehicle. The reason I keep mine fairly stock is I have a nice TJ for the rough stuff.

It would seem to make a 4 door black diamond capable you would need a 4" lift and 35 - 37" tires. So I opted for the 2 door. My kids don't go as often anymore so the rear doors arn't as high a priority.

I was the first to do the Jeepeater in both directions. Notice there are no tracks there.

[aw12345]

The traction control does work good as a poor man's locker. The whole thing with this thread is he owns a good running very capable TJ.
So the question remains what does Kevin really want from a JK.

[JK08]

Art, what you sayin..............is right..... The 07 to 11 did feel like a 4 cylinder, but i did manage to pass a semi once in a while. The ESP has been a problem. My 07 had 4:11's and stock 32's and I never had a tranny overheating problem. The new 2012 has a factory trans cooler in front of the radiator.

That said, the JK is very quiet and comfortable on and off road. I found the 2 door to be very trail capable with just a 3" lift and open diff's. I've taken the JK on just about any trail I desired, including laying out the Cougar Buttes trails back in the beginning.

The 2012 has some vast improvements over the 07-11 model. On our last trip to the Sierra's I was getting 21.5 mpg going to Bishop, 17 int the back country and 19.5 coming back with a 50mph head wind.

With The 2012 trans you pretty much put it in drive and leave it there. Like inVERT said with the 07 auto you're constantly manually shifting.

IMO the JK now is a worthwhile vehicle to build. It can be an all around vehicle. The reason I keep mine fairly stock is I have a nice TJ for the rough stuff.

It would seem to make a 4 door black diamond capable you would need a 4" lift and 35 - 37" tires. So I opted for the 2 door. My kids don't go as often anymore so the rear doors arn't as high a priority.

I was the first to do the Jeepeater in both directions. Notice there are no tracks there.

OH i want to do that in the limo now... that looks fun and one more thing to do in a 4dr just to do it.

The traction control does work good as a poor man's locker. The whole thing with this thread is he owns a good running very capable TJ.
So the question remains what does Kevin really want from a JK.

The question remains what does he want out of his 4dr JK?

if you have the coin wait a year let them work the bugs out of the new 2012 V6 and pick yourself up a bad ass 260 foot pounds of tourque 4dr and make it your own. I wish I had some time and a welder to work on the JKU in my garage and really get her going on some hard core trails... But for now i will soak up some learned experiance from MJR and first hand wheelin with the silver slug. BTW top speed so far on 35's with the 4.88's 104MPH. No issue passing people on the road there is a sweet spot you just have to find it and feed the hampsters what they want.And to clear up one thing I have never had any issues with the trans on road, only off road in 2WD or 4HI. 4Lo is not an issue.

[mkjeepers]

My 07 would cruise all day long at 95mph if you could find a long enough down hill. The 2012 cruise speed in around 70 - 75 - which says they geared it right this time. I believe all the 2012 JK's come with 3.23 gears, according to Redlands Jeep. I believe the Rubicons have 4:11??

BTW the Sport model comes with a HP Dana 30 front and D44 rear. I have no hesitation with the HP 30 up front. I have heard from mechanics they haven't had the problem with the D30 axle tubes bending like they have in the front D44??

[brokenujoint]

Well, Im over the hammer type of abuse that I've put my TJ through. More interested in stuff not to much harder than Dishpan or Bronco Peak. Im more of a traveler now and want the jeep to also be used for extended camping trips and am getting into gold prospecting as well in the desert. Also would like it to perform when needed so I'm not looking like a douche mall crawler. lol
I wouldnt want anything less than a 2012. The hp issue is of concern to me. I am willing to wait a bit and get a used 2012. Looking to trade in my 2010 honda civic that I am totally not in love with and pay 425.00 a month for. Then purchase a 4 dr with a few thousand in hand as well. Able to pay about 500.00 a month in payments and then will sell my TJ for about 10,000 and use it all for JK upgrades.
I would want the best axle housings avail factory so guessing a 4dr unlimited rubi. 35's or 37's with about a 4" lift.
Other option is to wait a few yrs and buy someone else's heartbreak. I see TONS of well built rigs for sell for about 25,000 when they are worth a good 45,000 if built new.
Last option is to start dumping money into my already paid off TJ. She's tires so I'd be looking at a better engine/tranny and a better front end. This option most likely will be the one I go with. I just really really like the look of a built 4 dr. The space is nice to. I just dont like these issues of fires/electrical issues/and basically a jeep that you just cant work on by yourself w/o having a laptop and degree in mechanical engineering to work on.