When 911 Fails

[SAR Jeeper]

Just wanted to get a feeler out.

You do a foolish thing, and you've headed out to check out that back road that has seemed so enticing to you for months. Your buddies can't go, so its just you and your significant other. You are many miles/hours in, when you decide to turn back. As you are negotiating your 12 point turn on the narrow shelf road, the ground gives way, and you roll your Jeep off the road, 30 feet down a ravine. Now what? You or your significant other has been injured. You dial 911 on your cell, but no service. Now what?

Having read online, seen on tv, etc., you hear a lot about people getting lost, injured, missing, etc. I have often wondered what type of training these people have had, and would it have helped.

So, I finally decided to try something out.

Do you think you would benefit from a course that would teach you basic survival? I'm not talking about a 3 day class where you live off the land, but an 8 hour course that would teach basic navigation, first aid, and surviving the environment.

What topics would you like to see covered? We really don't want a wilderness CPR class, right?

Again, this is a feeler. We still need to brainstorm our idea's.

Feedback is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[igofshn]

First - don't wheel by yourself. Second - carry a Sat phone if youe do go out by yourself.

[Pikeman]

I think basic survival should include:

Map and Compass(Doug-Fishpoet teaches a good course)

Basic first aid/CPR- Go through red cross

Advanced First AID- How to assess the casualty, splint, treat shock, burns and heat injuries. Take pulse and vitals as off highway users and outdoor enthusiast we get far enough out we will be the first responder. Need the knowledge to assist and also give the 911 crews as much information.

Packing for the unforseen: additional water and food, even if just a couple hour trip as described, sleeping bag, silver Space blanket, for over night.

Learn local vegetation etc. that is edible. Also dangerous animals/insects for that area.

I think this is a great topic and while most of my recommendations can take a few days each, I think an overview of most of them can be covered in a day. I think providing the knowledge to be aware and also where to find the answers is the best education. You can't teach people everything and realistically they wont remember. Teach them how to find/ get the answers they need is far more valuable.

In the military that is mainly what they give us at leadership courses is how to get the answers. We also have smart cards/ reference cards that have basic formats on them like 9-line Medivac, Casualty assessment etc. that we carry to help us remember. In a crisis situation anything you can bring or have to assist can mean the difference of life or death.

[red baron 13]

Interested

1. When I want to go wheelin, I go. If no one is available, I still go. (By no means do I advise or preach this - I'm admiting I'm a dumba**) 2. How much is a SAT phone? (And what if you need to use it on any other day of the week?) 3. I would DEFINITELY be interested as I have already stated the obvious!

[Pikeman]

Communication

I fogrot to mention in my lengthy post Communication. While most of us have CB's they wont do a lot of good unless someone is close and on the same channel.

Ham's are nice and can get out a lot further via repeaters but need special license.

Sat phone's are also nice but can be expensive.

SPOT Messenger- a very handy tool

Signal Strobe, Chem lights, Signal Mirror- good to have and know how to use.

Let's face it in a roll over as described you may loose vehicle power damage battery etc. so there goes CB and possibly the HAM radio's. Hand held devices are also nice but can be thrown from vehicle as well. Redundancy and various forms of communication is key.

[Russ Chung]

....Do you think you would benefit from a course that would teach you basic survival? I'm not talking about a 3 day class where you live off the land, but an 8 hour course that would teach basic navigation, first aid, and surviving the environment.....

Steve,

Because of the time limits of a one-day course, I would not discuss basic navigation. Instead, I would advise staying with your disabled vehicle until help arrives instead of trying to walk out. I would base the training on the lessons learned from the ordeal of the James Kim family in December 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

First Aid topics: I think that these topics are all that could reasonably be covered in a brief course:
- CPR
- stopping bleeding
- splinting a broken bone
- treating for shock
- treating a snake bite
- immobilizing a head/neck/back injury

Survival topics: The discussion should address both summertime survival in a desert environment as well as wintertime survival in a cold climate.
- finding/building a shelter
- finding water
- starting a fire
- signaling for help

[Striker3]

Delorme has a good GPS/Spot messenger integration kit. Not only does it give you the basic SPOT service, but you can send SATCOM texts to anyone using the GPSr as well.

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELi...&section=10560

Like Russ said, a one day course is not enough time to teach basic navigation. That brings the next point, and one I hope that those of you that offroad alone already follow. In order to be found in enough time to survive, search crews have to:

1. Be alerted that you are missing
2. Have a general idea of your location.

For that to happen you have to leave a route plan as well as a check in time with someone that you trust.

[curtis]

I agree with Pikeman that you should carry a book or cards to help you remember what to do in a emergency. I would also carry a Personal Location beacon. They only cost about $250.00 with no yearly fee. They work off (global cospas sarsat 406mhz search and rescue satellite communcaton system).

[igofshn]

1. When I want to go wheelin, I go. If no one is available, I still go. (By no means do I advise or preach this - I'm admiting I'm a dumba**) 2. How much is a SAT phone? (And what if you need to use it on any other day of the week?) 3. I would DEFINITELY be interested as I have already stated the obvious!

I paid $180 for the phone and pay $35 per month/unlimited use.

[igofshn]

SPOT Messenger- a very handy tool

Waste of money. We used one for an emergency. No help arrived.

[red baron 13]

Wow, didn't know the SAT phones were so affordable. I don't know anything about them. Do you have a cell as well? Or, can the SAT phone replace a cell? And, does the SAT get reception virtually anywhere?

[curtis]

The charge per min. is what used to be real bad

[Kodiak Spirit]

you should have a bug-out-bag with the survival stuff that you can toss in the jeep and take with you when you need to leave the jeep. The scenario you laid out, your following a road. Most of us don't go cross country, we follow roads. if you can get back to the road then you can walk back the way you came until you get signal. if your hurt, stay by the jeep and dig in.

I have always had a bug-out-bag for the jeep with water, first aid kit, food, flashlight, lighter, knife, xtra shirt, xtra pants, belt, xtra .40 ammo... it's all in a backpack, so I can take it with me easy. I have it at the house in case I gotta bug out there, and I throw it in whatever vehicle I'm taking for the day. It's not just for rolling the jeep onna back trail, heck sometimes you get stuck on the dowside of the pass and have to stay down there. The pass is on fire in the summer and snowbound in the winter- heck what if you get stick in bfe on yer way to vegas? depend on the common courtesy of a stranger? It's smart to have a plan, even when we do dumbass stuff like going out alone.

[Striker3]

Waste of money. We used one for an emergency. No help arrived.

I would be very interested in knowing the story here. Based on what was said in the other SPOT thread, sounds like you hit the 911 button but the message never went through and nobody knew. If that is the case, it is a reception problem that would affect any SATCOM technology, including a phone. Ask anyone in the military that has used the Blue Force Tracker. Lost messages are not uncommon.

The fact remains though, a simple message device will have a better chance of finding reception than the phone will, just like regular cell phones take less reception to send text messages. As an example, I use SATCOM tech that sends micro-bursts of data through the DOD's Iridium network, the same one that loses BFT text messages and drops voice calls. Those bursts get through and are used to compile a 35mm quality picture. The smaller the transmission, the more likely it will be to get through. On the other hand, if the message was received and SPOT did not send a rescue crew, that is a whole different story.

Whether it is a SPOT or one of the Personal Locator Beacons, I think that they would be better than a phone in terms of worst case reliability.

[curtis]

The problem with Spot and others like it is that the signal goes to commercial call centers. The PLB's siginal is sent to The search and rescue system which is global. I have heard of complaints about SPOT but never about PLB'S.