McCain Announces his VP Running Mate

[sarah]

I don't trust any of them!....

Amen to that. We're not going to get any change by voting for the "same" people election after election. We have good reasons not to trust them. We all even thought Sarah P. was different but she's standing up there lying too. (bridge to nowhere example) If your statement isn't 100% correct, it's a lie, no matter how small. And don't even get me started on McCain...

I don't lie to my friends and family, do you? There is no excuse!

(Go Ron Paul!! )

[RAT]

See, now don't you feel better. I know when I'm a little gloomy, I take a few minutes out of my busy day and pick on Kurt, and instantly my day is filled with sunshine.

I'm sure you can find a place for this...

[RAT]

I guess the real question is, which party, Dems or Republicans would you rather have in office, because, despite your intense desire to have an indpendent in office this time 'round, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, Ain't gonna happen... Just playin' Devil's advocate here.

[sarah]

I guess the real question is, which party, Dems or Republicans would you rather have in office, because, despite your intense desire to have an indpendent in office this time 'round..

But everyone says that every election, so unless we start voting for change, it's not going to happen. I know it sucks, but we have to start somewhere, right?

If ya'll do a little research, you just might see that although Mc/Bama are trying to convince us they're totally different from each other, they're not. They're both going to raise taxes, write a zillion laws, deteriorate our bill of rights and constitution, forbid drilling and nuclear, meddle in foreign affairs, and increase penalties for carbon emissions, just to name a few - and despite what they say! For example, remember when (the current) Bush ran on a humble foreign policy?

I don't mean to seem like a rant, just callin' it like it is, unfortunately.

[RAT]

But everyone says that every election, so unless we start voting for change, it's not going to happen. I know it sucks, but we have to start somewhere, right?

If ya'll do a little research, you just might see that although Mc/Bama are trying to convince us they're totally different from each other, they're not. They're both going to raise taxes, write a zillion laws, deteriorate our bill of rights and constitution, forbid drilling and nuclear, meddle in foreign affairs, and increase penalties for carbon emissions, just to name a few - and despite what they say! For example, remember when (the current) Bush ran on a humble foreign policy?

I don't mean to seem like a rant, just callin' it like it is, unfortunately.

I've been researching, and to tell the truth, besides the fact that Ron Paul, and others, are running in parties outside the "norm" for Washington, what power do you really think any of them will have with a Congress and Senate that are still full of Good ol boys? Remember checks and balances? The president can't push laws through a Congress and a Senate if those two bodies don't want it. He (president) can veto all he wants and in the end, you still have status quo.If you want to change the light bulb at the top of the tree, sometimes you have to start from the bottom and fix all the other ones first. How many independents run for local offices and get elected? That I haven't researched, but I'm sure someone will. Maybe that's where the independent movement needs to concentrate it's efforts for a while. Get some seats in some local governments, maybe a state governor or two, then some senators, etc.

But hey, I'm a Hawk Repubilcan and beleive we should just NUKE 'em all. But I'm willing to change, if I see there is a chance to make it work. Convince me...

[mrchips]

What people don't understand is that change starts with the PEOPLE, that is us. We the people have the real power in a democracy, and the power is held in the form of your vote. Give the new people running for office a chance if they don't do what we want vote them out of office and give the next person a chance. They will get the hint, do for the people or you are out on your ear.

[RAT]

What people don't understand is that change starts with the PEOPLE, that is us. We the people have the real power in a democracy, and the power is held in the form of your vote. Give the new people running for office a chance if they don't do what we want vote them out of office and give the next person a chance. They will get the hint, do for the people or you are out on your ear.

My freind I couldn't agree with you more. So how do you suggest we get Americans to turn out en mass to vote? When voter turn out runs at 30-40%, the chances are slim that enough votes will be cast for change, and I don't mean Obama's change.... For this idea to work, we need 80-90% or better.

[mrchips]

National election day, should be President's Day, and I would make it a federal holiday, and that you could not buy anything,so that people only have to go and vote. Teach the young kids in schools what it means to vote, and educate them to be part of a democracy.
It seems that adults, are so busy trying to keep their lives together that they just don,t make time to go and vote, or they don,t like a certain candidate, well then vote for a green, or libertarian party, but cast your vote. Government is supposed to be" for the people, by the people, of the people".

[RAT]

National election day, should be President's Day, and I would make it a federal holiday

This would be cool. Good idea.

and that you could not buy anything,so that people only have to go and vote.

This sounds a lot like Communism...

[USMC 0369]

Teach the young kids in schools what it means to vote, and educate them to be part of a democracy.

I'd be happy if we could just get them to learn how to spell and add correctly.

Baby steps.

[maddmike]

to support and add to kurt and mrchips' comments, i also think it's very important to vote for everything all the time, not just the presidency. vote for governors, local government, House positions, even those silly california propositions. being involved is free and it is our right and privilege, and it's not necessarily good enough to vote every 4 years when it's time for a new president, since change can happen by voting in all the minor elections as well.

I didn't vote much at all until 4 years ago, and now I make it a point to vote every year, even if it's just for some local stuff. it's all important and it's part of your voice being heard and participating in what we have as a basic freedom, and makes me feel good even if what i voted for doesn't pass, because at least my voice was heard.

so get out there and vote, and then at least you can't be as angry at the results!

PS and thanks to all who have made a sacrifice for me being able to have this right!

[sarah]

Get some seats in some local governments, maybe a state governor or two, then some senators, etc.

I think you're right in that we aren't going to be able to change anything from the top down. But at least we can cast "protest" votes - I think that will continue to shake the establishment. We need to start ground up with our local and state elections, and get our voters educated on what they're voting for.

Teach the young kids in schools what it means to vote, and educate them to be part of a democracy.

And that does have to start with first understanding our own form of government, America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy.

[Old Fart]

I think you're right in that we aren't going to be able to change anything from the top down. But at least we can cast "protest" votes - I think that will continue to shake the establishment. We need to start ground up with our local and state elections, and get our voters educated on what they're voting for.

And that does have to start with first understanding our own form of government, America is a Constitutional Republic . . . NOT a Democracy.

Flame suit on...

Sarah, can you show us any hard facts that a "protest vote" has ever "shook the establishment"?

Us old desert racers remember when they shut down the Barstow to Vegas race. And we did "protest rides" every year for quite a while to "shake them up". Didn't work.

The fact that you make not like the TWO choices you have doesn't change the fact that the reality is - there's only two.

Go Pat Paulsen!

[sarah]

Sarah, can you show us any hard facts that a "protest vote" has ever "shook the establishment"?

Ok, let me try. My example for most of you will be obvious, lol. Let's take Ron Paul for example. I'd consider him 3rd party, since he is out of the "mainstream." Temporarily forget the fact that you either love him or hate him, here are some facts/links/etc.

Let me try to prove to you that he was newsworthy:

Reuters: Ron Paul Dominates Montana's Campaign Contributions
"The most amazing fact about Paul's campaign is that the money isn't being given by corporate financing, but by small individual donors through grassroots efforts."

Presidential Campaign Contributors Overview

Individual contributions for Paul: $34,336,840 99% (wow!)
Contributions from individual members or employees or owners from the: (the companies themselves did not donate the money)

US Army $76,355 (remember that Paul wants to stop policing the world and end the war)
US Navy $58,226
Google Inc $55,901
US Air Force $55,255
Microsoft Corp $48,573
US Postal Service $26,791
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...&cid=N00005906

Compared to McCain for example: (hopefully the difference here doesn't need explaining)
Merrill Lynch $296,913
Citigroup Inc $268,501
Morgan Stanley $234,272
Goldman Sachs $208,395
JPMorgan Chase & Co $179,975
AT&T Inc $174,497
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...goButt2=Submit

Seattle Times: Paul turns heads with campaign donations
"Here's a guy nobody is paying attention to, and he's raising real money," said a stunned Tony Fabrizio, a Republican strategist unaffiliated in the presidential contest.

Now let's see how the major media cut him out...
I consider the major media part of the establishment to be shaken.

AOL News: Shh! Ron Paul Places 2nd in Nevada
"As Ron Paul supporters have observed, you wouldn't know it to scan this morning's headlines. Like him or not, Ron Paul is newsworthy, and the drumbeat of "unfair treatment" from his supporters is justified."

CBS News: Caucus Results Upset State Paul Supporters
"Morgan Wright, from District 6 in Baton Rouge, was a Ron Paul delegate in the state Republican caucus. But when he arrived at the caucus on Jan. 22, his name was not on the roll of registered Republicans."

Sean Hannity Forum Bans Ron Paul
DIGG Is Burying All RON PAUL Stories!

But the awesome thing is, he's not going away...

Montana Constitution Party Submits Presidential Electors Pledged to Ron Paul and Michael Peroutka

What do you think? For another reference, try looking up the past Minnesota Governor, Jesse Ventura. I read his book last month, and although I don't agree with everything he says (global warming,blah,blah) I do believe he did some shaking over in the midwest and beyond.



Anyone want to come over for movie night? hehe

[sarah]

Oh, I just found this link. yay
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.c...-protest-vote/