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  • Emergency communications

    Let's get the discussion going on emergency communications. We've discussed it quite a bit on the Panamint Valley Days thread.

    First of all, I'm willing to hold a class in emergency communications here in the Victor Valley area. Maybe SARJeeper would be willing to do the same for the SFV folks. How about other members in other areas would be willing to to the same?

    Okay What works best for emergency communications?

    Nothing works best. Every form of communications has it's pluses & minusus.

    CB - it's only good for very short range and not very many people monitor channel 9 anymore. Channel 9 is the FCC desiganted emergency channel in the CB band. CB is also subject to interference form "skip" depending on the sun spot activity and can be utterly useless when the ionosphere is charged up and radio signals are bouncing all over the place. It works great for communications between parties traveling in a group.

    GMRS/FRS I put them in the same class. They have just about the same characteristics as CB, but with a little better range depending on the terrain you are in and are not subject to sun spot activity. Again unless someone is listening with capabilities to contact 911, you can not depend on this radio service either.

    Ham radio: This is a huge topic. let me give the short answer now: in Southern California, there are hundreds of mountain top repeaters serving all the vhf & uhf ham bands. This is a great medium of communications because there are many regular, older, or disabled hams that continuously monitor and ready to relay emergency information. Be advised though that there are areas with little or no coverage such as large areas of Death Valley, Panamint, Valley and the surrounding mountains in the steep walled canyons.

    Cell Phone: Excellent if you are in the coverage of a cell site. There are many areas that Cell phones will not work.

    Sat phones: Excellent also. But they may not work in a steep walled canyon depending on the position of the receiving satellite.

    The ideal trip would have members with various capibilites.

    In an emergency situation, organization is the key:
    1. One person in chagre until professional help arrives. He/she assigns tasks to those capable of performing them.

    2. One communication person. all emergency radio traffic should go through one person.

    More later. what's your thoughts??
    SBCO Fire Dept. CERT volunteer
    MJR moderator
    MJR Adopt-a-Trail Crew member
    Jeep Patrol Leader
    Reforestation Supervisor
    Licensed Ham - n6ujm
    Eagle Scout

  • #2
    Roger those are two excellent points. On point number one, I have heard of several instances that a 911 phone call needed to be placed and everyone assumed that someone else had made the call. It’s for that reason that whomever is taking charge in the situation needs to be specific when assigning tasks. You should never say "someone call 911". It’s much better to say specifically to one person "YOU, call 911". Same goes for other tasks. Be specific.

    We are lucky here in Sothern California to have such good repeater coverage. I have only been a ham for a few months but I have never once been in a place that I could not hit at least 2 or three repeaters. And I have a 2m only radio. I know that allmost all the time Ann N6BOP is on the Keller Peak Repeater willing to help. I talked to a few people last week about a car wreck that one of them was in. He grabbed his ham radio and someone called 911 for him.

    If I spent any time in places that ham radio contacts and cell phone coverage was scarce, I would look into a Satellite phone. I think there are some prepaid plans out there. I would not like to have a monthly bill as I would hopefully never use the phone.

    I am thoroughly disenchanted with the Satellite Personal Tracker (SPOT). Their new model that has covered buttons and a message confirmation light is much better than the older version. But looking into the cost to run one of those devices I don’t think it is worth it. Instead my next piece of emergency communication gear is going to be a NOAA monitored 406MHz personal locator beacon. Just like the SPOT tracker you register with the NOAA and give them a home address and emergency contacts. Each beacon has a unique serial number that is transmitted so as soon as the signal is received they know who you are. From what I understand most all search and rescue helicopters have a PLB tracker on board. Many PLBs have also have a GPS device built in and included your coordinates in the transmission.
    Last edited by OU812; 11-30-09, 04:08 PM. Reason: added link.
    Those left standing
    Will make millions
    Writing books on ways
    It should have been
    -Incubus "Warning"

    Comment


    • #3
      As one of those who were intimately involved with the entire Panamint Valley ordeal I can say that our club did all of the above. One member has purchased a hand held HAM, one has purchased or is in the process of ordering a SAT phone. Me I have ordered the Yaesu FT8900 mobile HAM for my jeep. We will still have our CB’s but between the three of us our club will have all forms. I am studying for the Tech license for the test after X-Mas.
      We did as you suggested, one person took charge, gave two the responsibility of driving down and opening communications for getting help. Later sent the others with the kids down to the ambulance. The break in communication came from the paramedic’s and our people as our people at camp were told help was coming and in fact it wasn’t. Had we had a HAM radio at the time we could have called gunner at the camp and let him know what was actually happening. The Hanford Trail Busters won’t be put in that situation again. We will be prepared, we are already looking at drafting a preparedness plan for our club and a future event we plan to host. It’s just a shame that it takes a significant emotional event to get us on the right road.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cweed,

        Thanks for that report. I would like to add that a mobile radio should be a hams first investment. Hand helds just do not have the range of a mobile radio. Where a hand held would be great in the chicken rock incident is for a ham to hike down to the bottom and report to a mobile rig the situation which then the mobile radio operator could relay information a long distance.

        I think you guys did great and I bet if you are ever faced with with this type of situation, you'll be ready for it.
        SBCO Fire Dept. CERT volunteer
        MJR moderator
        MJR Adopt-a-Trail Crew member
        Jeep Patrol Leader
        Reforestation Supervisor
        Licensed Ham - n6ujm
        Eagle Scout

        Comment


        • #5
          Cweed, you guys did an amazing job caring for the wounded and communicating with emergency services. Please do not misunderstand this tread to be about what you could have done better. Like you, we were all taken aback by this tragedy. The most disturbing element of the whole situation was the lack of help from the emergency services. But this has made me realize that when I am out in the desert I am more on my own than I thought I was. This means that I am not as prepared as I need to be. As saddened as I am about this accident, I take solace in the knowledge that my self and others learned to be more prepared because of it. I am now thinking of even less saver traumas like a broken leg or arm. Things like these don't warrant a search and rescue mission, but I am not prepared to deal with them as well as I could be. I would like to be one of hopefully many in our club that has the right piece of equipment or the pertinent knowledge at the crucial time that it is need to help one of our friends or loved ones. At present I could not say that I could do as good of a job as you and the Hanford Trail Busters did in Panamit Valley. I am sure there is one grateful family that has given you guys the praise that you are worthy of.
          Those left standing
          Will make millions
          Writing books on ways
          It should have been
          -Incubus "Warning"

          Comment


          • #6
            There is no mis-understanding here at all. We have done a lot of analysis on what could have gone better and based on that we are moving forward to make things safer for our club and those who wheel around us.

            Our thoughts of the hand held and mobile seem to match yours which why one has bought a handheld limited to 5 watts and I bought the mobile at 50 watts. Now I am building a really cool console to house it, fun project.

            The event at Panamint brought to light the false sense of security that our Wal-Mart first aid kits provide and the inability to comunicate to those who were down the mountain. The fortunate part was that we were mostly Navy and ex-Navy and we all had first aid training. Our approach as a club is to improve emergency communication capability, improve the first aid kit to include everything that could be needed (I purchased a first responder kit and will add to that), and to have an emergency plan in place should something ever happen in the future.

            While the communications from the emergency services that were suppose to help us went wrong, we realize that we cannot bank on them being there to help us as we are always in remote areas, even close to home.

            So the answer for me is to continue working with the emergency services, (just like any other business there are some very knowledgable/ good decision makers and some poor ones, the emergency services groups are no different) but to make myself as self supportive in first aid and extracation/ transportion as possible without going overboard. Still communicate with these services, just meet them half way.

            I would be really interested in any input you guy's have and suggestions for building a good reliable program that we to could share here in the central valley area.

            Comment


            • #7
              Check with your county Sheriff's Department and see if you can have a Search & Rescue member come talk to your group and answer questions.
              SBCO Fire Dept. CERT volunteer
              MJR moderator
              MJR Adopt-a-Trail Crew member
              Jeep Patrol Leader
              Reforestation Supervisor
              Licensed Ham - n6ujm
              Eagle Scout

              Comment


              • #8
                I'll do that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  thanks....

                  Just thought i would say thanks... Learned about a lot i didn't know thanks...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If I missed it? sorry I just breezed through this posting. Is there's a channel on the CB thats commonly used by jeepers here in the high desert? If yes what is it? If no maybe we should have one?

                    There's been several times I've been out in the desert and seen jeeps roaming around. Would've been nice to shout out to them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The common offraoders channel is channel 4. Emergence channel 9 and call channel 19. I usually don’t turn my CB on at all but when I am just monitoring it stays on ch4
                      Those left standing
                      Will make millions
                      Writing books on ways
                      It should have been
                      -Incubus "Warning"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OU812 View Post
                        I am thoroughly disenchanted with the Satellite Personal Tracker (SPOT). Their new model that has covered buttons and a message confirmation light is much better than the older version. But looking into the cost to run one of those devices I don’t think it is worth it. Instead my next piece of emergency communication gear is going to be a NOAA monitored 406MHz personal locator beacon. Just like the SPOT tracker you register with the NOAA and give them a home address and emergency contacts. Each beacon has a unique serial number that is transmitted so as soon as the signal is received they know who you are. From what I understand most all search and rescue helicopters have a PLB tracker on board. Many PLBs have also have a GPS device built in and included your coordinates in the transmission.
                        I can add that in an airplane, newer ELTs (emergency locator transmitter) transmit on 121.5/406MHz and are registered with NOAA. For a private plane, there is no requirement to upgrade to the 406 MHz ELT (even though it is 'officially' no longer supported), so a lot of planes have the older 121.5 MHz transmitters.

                        Because of this, many pilots continue to monitor 121.5 on a cross-country flight on the off chance that the satellite is not in the right position to pick up the 406MHz signal or the downed aircraft has an older ELT. Some aircraft ELTs are able to be used as 2-way radios as well... if PLBs are capable of that, that would be quite helpful

                        If the personal locator beacon also transmits on 121.5, that greatly increases your chances of being located- especially if the SARSAT is unable to receive the signal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That is great to hear. Most all of the PLBs I have looked at also transmit the 121.5MHz. The reasoning is that most SAR helicopters have a 121.5Mhz tracker.
                          Those left standing
                          Will make millions
                          Writing books on ways
                          It should have been
                          -Incubus "Warning"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK guys and dolls, I have the eqipment to donate to your operation, your choice, Kenwood or Yaesu, be willing to donate either one for a base station operator. As during Panamint I was in camp and unaware there was a radio issue, and as you say wont happen again. Licensure is a must however unless authorized 3rd party communications (makes it legal) someone email me or call me 805 896 6324, Rubiconcruiser@msn.com. Thanks and 73's Jim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's pretty darn cool RubiconCrusier! I'm a HAM and don't need any more gear. What is need is more training to make better use of what I have!
                              Off road adventure photography:

                              TreadLightly Trainer
                              Wilderness First Aid (WFA)
                              HAM - KI6PFO

                              2005 Rubicon Unlimited + trailer

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