First DSLR purchase advice

[NAILER341]

I agree with some of what you are saying Daniel; however for a swim meet, concert, or other high movement low light environment, the shutter speed is key. Too slow and all you get is a blur. It is fun to play with the speeds and get some blur with some frozen features to show the movement, but in my experience, you wind up with way too many unusable photos when allowing the camera to make so many decisions on its own on those low light high movement environments.
Photography is an art, and everyone can come up with their own way of making pictures that suit them.
There is nothing wrong with AP, it just doesnt do it for me and the way I like to shoot.

[daniel_buck]

if shutter speed is more important to you, then you could switch to shutter priority, and you can let the camera take hold of the aperture settings. :-)

But for an indoor sport where the light doesn't change much, you could easily find the exposure you like, and just set it on manual for most of the day. But you don't have to use manual, most modern cameras have pretty good metering. I just wouldn't get caught up on using manual exposure just for the sake of using manual, when one of the semi-manual/auto modes might do just as well, and let you focus more on your composition and timing. That's what I'm trying to get at. If the situation warrants manual, use it for sure! But if it doesn't really, why bother? :-)

I've been shooting for a while now, and for a time I used to be all caught up in manually setting my exposure, until I realized that for a good majority of my photos, aperture priority gave me what I wanted, and much quicker, letting me think about other things. There are certainly still situations when I switch to manual, but I don't use it if I don't have to, you still have the meter visible in the camera when you are in semi-auto modes, and metering then recomposing (for me) is just as fast, or faster than clicking through the shutter speeds or apertures.

[Lawrence]

Sony is out... The more I think about it, the more I am worried about Sony dropping the ball if they don't see the money in it. They've done it before and will do it again.

Also, a feature I thought would be nice actually ends up being a drawback. I have been playing with a Sony a57 and Tamron 18-270 f/3.5-6.3 lens for a few days and I was excited that it can shoot 10-12 frames per second. It shoots so fast that I could stitch the pictures together and make a movie, but it comes at the price of quality. It seems that the camera is confusing itself because it can't react that fast, most of my pictures are either out of focus or the colors are way off, or they are too dark, or all of the above.

I am not sure if it is the camera, the lens, or a combination of both (see how I ruled out operator error ), but out of 502 pictures I took at my daughter's swim camp only a handful are usable. And that was at the University of Minnesota which is a premier venue and one of the top pools in the nation, with much better (or less crappy) lighting than 90% of the pools we go to.

So, I went to the camera store today and I spoke with a fellow who showed me the new Canon T4i and a Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 lens. As you guys already pointed out regarding the lens, he mentioned that this is the setup I would want for taking sporting pictures, anything else won't cut it. He also said that I could go for the Canon version, but that it is $1K more than the Sigma and that I would not notice the difference.

He also recommended the Tamron 18-270mm f/3.5-6.3 lens for general "everyday" picture taking. Would it be better to consider a 24-70mm f2.8 instead like Erik suggested?

I know you guys have all the fancy gear, but the T4i could perhaps be a good intro to SLR for me, and as long as I get good glass, I can always upgrade to a prosumer if I get the bug. Thoughts on my new direction?

Edit: Still hoping to try a 7D soon.

[NAILER341]

Hey Lawrence! You just made me smile a little.
Before spending the money on the T4i, be sure to feel it in your hand with the 70-200 lens and/or the 24-70 f2.8 lens that I still recommend.
i believe the body on the t4i is plastic similar to the 60D. For me it just feels funny in my hand with the very light plastic body and the heavy professional grade lenses.

Take a look at this video-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6XCaqamsZQ
60D to T4i
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-Re...-Canon_EOS_60D
60D to 7D
http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EO...s-Canon_EOS_7D

[daniel_buck]

The sigma 70-200 should be a nice lens.

As for the 18-270 lens, I imagine the quality on that one isn't going to be stellar, but for every day shooting it's probably a great lens to have, you can walk around with just one lens.

Good luck with it, practice practice practice! And post up some photos sometime, we can give some tips

[Lawrence]

These are the kind of pictures I am hoping to take some day
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...postcount=1214

[NAILER341]

Here is the data for the first photo-

Camera Make = Canon
Camera Model = Canon EOS REBEL T2i
Last Modified Date/Time = 2012:05:30 19:00:45
Artist = Mike Reed
Copyright Owner =

EXIF Sub IFD

Exposure Time (1 / Shutter Speed) = 1/3200 second ===> 0.00031 second
Lens F-Number / F-Stop = 28/10 ===> ƒ/2.8
ISO Speed Ratings = 200
Original Date/Time = 2012:05:30 19:00:45
Digitization Date/Time = 2012:05:30 19:00:45
Shutter Speed Value (APEX) = 761856/65536
Shutter Speed (Exposure Time) = 1/3158.45 second
Aperture Value (APEX) = 196608/65536
Aperture = ƒ/2.83
Exposure Bias (EV) = 0/1 ===> 0
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 200/1 mm ===> 200 mm
Colour Space = sRGB (1)
Exposure Mode = manual exposure (1)
White Balance = auto (0)
Scene Capture Type = standard (0)

[daniel_buck]

Yep, only way you will get photos like that is with a long, fast aperture lens.

I don't know if you can configure all of the canon cameras in this way, but on my 1Ds2 I have one of the custom functions setup so that the * button on the back of the camera (by my right thumb) is the focusing button, so that no matter what I do with the shutter button (half click, let off, full click, whatever) I always have focusing control separate from my metering and my shutter pull.

This is quite a common setup in sports shooting, I don't shoot sports, but I love the speed and control that this gives. Instead of the shutter button controlling the focusing, metering, and shooting all together. Makes it difficult to focus on one area, meter in another area, and shoot in yet another area. Or then go back and focus again right before you snap the photo.

[Lawrence]

I went back to the store, "played" with the T4i and 60D and noticed a few things:

With 60D you get pentaprism (vs t4i pentamirror), top lcd, rear dial, longer battery life, bigger body with better ergonomics (at least to me), but slightly lower shutter lag (not sure if enough to make a difference). With the T4i you get better video/liveview AF, touchscreen, HDR, built-in stereo mic, smaller body and lighter weight (feels a bit cheesy though). Both have no microfocus adjustment, and both use SDHC.

I don't really care for the video part of the T4i and I would not miss it if it didn't have it, same with the touch screen. Also, the new phased detect AF and contrast detect AF only works with the upcoming STM lenses, some folks have reported its inability to really properly focus with standard EF lenses in video mode.

Anyway, I know the T4i is the latest and greatest but it felt really "cheap" compared to some of the "heavier" models and the lack of a top lcd is actually quite annoying. It is a nice toy, but it didn't do it for me.

So, the 60D looks like a decent body and folks on POTN seem to like it, and you can get the 60D through CLP for $640+tax which is not too shabby of a price. Any of you have used the 60D and have opinions you can share?

The biggest problem is that while at the store, I also tried the Nikon D7000 and it is a nice machine. I really liked some of its features but it retails for $1,100+tax for just a slightly faster AF and 0.7 fps additional. I am still leaning toward the Canon 60D (especially @ CLP prices), but any Nikon peeps who can share some insight on this model?

I don't know if you can configure all of the canon cameras in this way, but on my 1Ds2 I have one of the custom functions setup so that the * button on the back of the camera (by my right thumb) is the focusing button, so that no matter what I do with the shutter button (half click, let off, full click, whatever) I always have focusing control separate from my metering and my shutter pull.

That is interesting and seems quite handy, thanks Daniel. It seems that the 60D has a AF-ON button that lets you focus similar to the 1/2 press on the shutter and also a * button. Perhaps this is what you are talking about?

[Britain]

With Canon your auto outputs to .jpg files. Bad for post processing. Shooting in manual outputs to .raw much better if post processing is required. Nikon and Sony not sure what they output to. Someone at work shot a wedding with a Nikon and sent me the files, they were not raw format. Research what output you require.

[Lawrence]

Hey Lawrence! You just made me smile a little.

You can smile a little more Erik, I just bought this http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1126541. It was between this one and the 60D, but I don't care much for the video part, and the price was right. I think it'll serve as a good intro body until I get the itch to upgrade. I am like a kid at Christmas, I can hardly wait to receive it. Now, on to finding a 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II USM

[NAILER341]

That is a good entry level Semi Pro body Lawrence. I think you will be happy with that one while you are learning the ropes.
You would most likely be good with the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS I USM and be able to get it for a lot less money. That II is a hot item right now and it is going to cost you.

[Lawrence]

You would most likely be good with the 70-200mm f/2.8 IS I USM and be able to get it for a lot less money. That II is a hot item right now and it is going to cost you.

Darn Erik, I hate it when you are right... again! That is what I am thinking on the lens and I should have mentioned that in my post, but I was too excited to finally get some gear. On POTN and FM, I see the IS II for $2K and the IS I for ~$1.4K, but I hope to find an IS I a little cheaper than that. It would most likely suffice and my wallet would be a little fatter.

[NAILER341]

Be sure to check the date code on the lens before buying it. Not that an older lens is bad, it is just good to know what you are getting for what cost.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/C...ns-Aging.aspx/
You should be able to find one for $1200 if you are patient. Look it over well and take some test shots.
Bring your laptop and zoom in closely at the photos taken with the lens looking for flaws from the lens.
You should also look into the Canon CPS program for Gold level membership when you have enough equipment to qualify. There are some great benefits to this membership when you are into the expensive gear.
http://www.cps.usa.canon.com/
You have to meet a certain criteria and quantity of equipment to be eligible, but you may be able to add some of a friend's equipment to your membership to qualify. You would both benefit.

[Lawrence]

You should be able to find one for $1200 if you are patient. Look it over well and take some test shots.

Too late for being patient.
Darn, that was an expensive day but I just felt compelled to buy it at that price.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/....php?t=1201117

I called the seller and he just received it this morning from Canon, broke the seal on the box while we were on the phone, and made sure everything was in tip top shape. He will include his invoice from Canon for the 90-day warranty. He bought it hoping to sell his f/4, but he has had no interest and he can't keep both.

I may have jumped the gun, but as you said...

The big investment in a camera is in the glass. You will likely replace the body throughout your years of shooting, but the glass stays the same. Buy good glass and a body with the features you need. you can change the body as your experience and needs grow.

For a good SLR kit you need a bigger budget [...] get into some 2.8 glass and a prosumer body.

2.8 glass: CHECK
prosumer body: CHECK

Edit: My wife now has a wonderful point and shoot camera. It's a win for everyone, except the wallet.