Offset ball joints

[RAT]

If you wheel you learn something new everyday. The front alignment on the TJ has been whack for a month or so. No DW's but damn unstable at speed. After replacing all the bushings which were badly worn I thought that might nail it but noooo...

Finally found a shop in my neighborhood that really knows Jeeps. This guy threw an offset balljoint in the left side of the axle and BAM! When I installed ORO steering I went to BB and banged it up pretty good. The added strength in the steering apparently put a lot more stress on other parts of the suspension. Or I just went brain dead and took some bad lines that day, take your pick. Gotta blame it on something.
The ball joints are about $90.00 bills a peice, but man did it tweak the alignment right back to dead on. Until I bend it on something else...
I've got the P/N of the ball joint at my shop if anyone wants it for reference.
Rat

[waynehartwig]

Offset joints can help an alignment problem right itself. However, just keep in mind they are weaker than standard 0* joints and are not the 'solve all' solution. Like you say, you may have something else bent that you are compensating for.

[RAT]

Offset joints can help an alignment problem right itself. However, just keep in mind they are weaker than standard 0* joints and are not the 'solve all' solution. Like you say, you may have something else bent that you are compensating for.

No doubt. I am still on the prowl for the original culprit, but so far everything is good. Scraped, dinged, rusted and dented, but good.
Kurt

[mrblaine]

Offset joints can help an alignment problem right itself. However, just keep in mind they are weaker than standard 0* joints and are not the 'solve all' solution. Like you say, you may have something else bent that you are compensating for.

Weaker in what way?

[waynehartwig]

Weaker in what way?

On the side they are offset to, there is less material for one. Two, since the hole is no longer in the center, the case is weaker as well - this is very hard to explain... It's like having a circle and a oval shaped ring, the oval will squash easier than the circle will. And D30's rely simply on the ball joint being pressed into the knuckle, so this is also another weakness.

Some rigs require them. DC doesn't have the best tolerances and some shipped from the factory with alignment issues - this is the only way to fix it, short of cutting the knuckles off and putting new ones on. I'm just afraid this long out since his rig was shipped, there are two things to come to mind. Either this problem has been plaguing his rig since day one. Or two, he has a bent housing. If the housing is bent, the next thing to go is everything inside the pumpkin. Now is the time to figure out what is bent, and if the housing, replace it, while the internals are still good. If the housing continues to bend, your looking at a cracked carrier and broken gears. D30 housings are easy to find...

[mrblaine]

On the side they are offset to, there is less material for one. Two, since the hole is no longer in the center, the case is weaker as well - this is very hard to explain... It's like having a circle and a oval shaped ring, the oval will squash easier than the circle will. And D30's rely simply on the ball joint being pressed into the knuckle, so this is also another weakness.

Yes, there is less material, but that also varies depending on the offset. A .5 degree will more than a 2 degree will. My point, is that really an issue? I've never seen one fail and I ran a 2 degree with 37" tires and never loosed the bore in the inner C on an axle that spent it's entire life in JV.

So when you say they are weaker, I agree there is material removed, but does it matter?

Some rigs require them. DC doesn't have the best tolerances and some shipped from the factory with alignment issues -

For clarification, DC doesn't make the housings, Dana does and if there's an alignment issue, it's Dana's fault. DC's responsibility, but Dana's fault.

this is the only way to fix it, short of cutting the knuckles off and putting new ones on. I'm just afraid this long out since his rig was shipped, there are two things to come to mind. Either this problem has been plaguing his rig since day one. Or two, he has a bent housing. If the housing is bent, the next thing to go is everything inside the pumpkin. Now is the time to figure out what is bent, and if the housing, replace it, while the internals are still good. If the housing continues to bend, your looking at a cracked carrier and broken gears. D30 housings are easy to find...

[waynehartwig]

Yes, there is less material, but that also varies depending on the offset. A .5 degree will more than a 2 degree will. My point, is that really an issue? I've never seen one fail and I ran a 2 degree with 37" tires and never loosed the bore in the inner C on an axle that spent it's entire life in JV.

So when you say they are weaker, I agree there is material removed, but does it matter?



For clarification, DC doesn't make the housings, Dana does and if there's an alignment issue, it's Dana's fault. DC's responsibility, but Dana's fault.

I believe DC gets the housing stripped, and then DC welds the inner knuckles on - no? I honestly don't know, but the inner knuckles out are not Dana issue. So if they come ball joint to ball joint, DC must send them their inner knuckle out and then Dana sends them a completed axle.

I know people running M35's, locked, with 35" tires. They've done it for a long time with no issues. Does that mean that the M35's are a good axle and can handle it? The balljoint is weaker than a stock one. However, like you pointed out, most may not ever see them fail before they are worn out, like your experience. I'm just saying that though they can resolve alignment issues, they are meant as a last resort, not fix all.

[mrblaine]

I believe DC gets the housing stripped, and then DC welds the inner knuckles on - no? I honestly don't know, but the inner knuckles out are not Dana issue. So if they come ball joint to ball joint, DC must send them their inner knuckle out and then Dana sends them a completed axle.

I know people running M35's, locked, with 35" tires. They've done it for a long time with no issues. Does that mean that the M35's are a good axle and can handle it? The balljoint is weaker than a stock one. However, like you pointed out, most may not ever see them fail before they are worn out, like your experience. I'm just saying that though they can resolve alignment issues, they are meant as a last resort, not fix all.

I can't speak for Dana USA, but Currie bought a bunch of HP 44's from Dana Venezuela and they were complete with shafts, gears, and knuckles. That leads me to believe that Dana more than likely does the whole axle.

Now that I think about it, I've also seen a full scale blueprint of the mechanical drawing hanging in an upstairs office at Currie from Dana that shows the whole axle. Could go either way based on that.

[waynehartwig]

I can't speak for Dana USA, but Currie bought a bunch of HP 44's from Dana Venezuela and they were complete with shafts, gears, and knuckles. That leads me to believe that Dana more than likely does the whole axle.

Now that I think about it, I've also seen a full scale blueprint of the mechanical drawing hanging in an upstairs office at Currie from Dana that shows the whole axle. Could go either way based on that.

The HPD44 is completely Dana/Spicer built - right out to the knuckles and hubs. So that would make sense, that they would come complete from Dana/Spicer. For example, I can't go to Spicer and get a hub bearing for a Rubicon. But I can get one for a F350.