CJ: moving leaf spring shackle mounts

[daniel_buck]

So I'm new to leafsprings (and still probably quite green on suspension in general!) I've got some radial tires on the little CJ, and it rides quite alot better, the little bumps are taken care of! Larger bumps (and a bit of bucking) are still present, which I guess is a factor of short wheel base, and stiff springs. I really like the stance of the jeep, I don't want to go too much higher. 1 or maybe 2 inches taller would be ok. I think 3 would be a bit much.

My next step to getting something a bit softer for daily driving (and potential long trips!) Is to get longer leaf springs, I've been looking at the Holbrook long leaf setup. Which adds about 3" of height, and moves the inside spring mounts closer together (more towards the center of the jeep), and I guess generally leaves the outside mounts alone. But by all accounts is quite soft and flexy.

So anyway, I was under the jeep looking around, and since I'd have to put new spring mounts on for the inside mounts, I don't see any reason why I couldn't move the front shackle mount of the front springs forward about 2 inches, and the rear shackle mount of the rear springs back about 2 inches. That would be 4 more inches of wheel base, without having to stretch the body (I may need to trim the inside supports of the rear fender wells, and a cut a notch in the front and rear bumpers, but that's no problem).

And while I was looking at the shackle mounts, it looks like there is room to actually use a shorter shackle mount, I could probably use a shackle mount that is 1" shorter, and still have room for the shackles to rotate properly. At least I think so. This would lower the effective lift amount by a little bit.

I'm confident that the holbrook springs will be a nice smooth ride, everyone who has them raves about how smooth they ride. But I don't want the additional 3" of height. So if using a lower profile shackle mount is not a good idea, then I'm thinking maybe just forgo the longer springs, and go with a standard bolt-on 1 or 2" spring that is supposed to be a little bit softer than stock, but then adding the 4" of wheel base by moving all of the mounts farther outward.

Will 4" of wheelbase make any difference on the road? (bucking) It's 80" of wheel base right now, would 84" be noticably different?

Does any of this sound out of line? Thoughts? I'll post some photos tonight, that might help make more clear what I'm thinking.

[Tumbleweed13]

I can only speak to the springs. I had a yj in the past. I put 4 different brands of 4" lift springs, on it. There is a difference, and you get what you pay for. In general, more, and thinner leafs is smoother. Getting customer reviews is a great way to go. You can always go to a custom spring shop, and have one offs made for you.

[curtis]

Back in the old days, we would take out a leaf or two and then have the springs rearched to get the height back.

[daniel_buck]

Someone also suggested 'frenching' the spring mounts. Seems like this might be an easy way to take off and inch and a half or so. I'm sure I'd need to beef up the frame a bit, considering how thin the factory frame is, and that it's not even boxed!

[RAT]

I'm not clear on something; [COLOR="#FF0000"]I don't see any reason why I couldn't move the front shackle mount of the front springs forward about 2 inches, and the rear shackle mount of the rear springs back about 2 inches. That would be 4 more inches of wheel base, without having to stretch the body[/COLOR]

Are you actually moving the axle forward, or just installing longer springs? If you are installing longer springs, that won't change wheel base because the axle will still be in the same position in relation to the frame and rear axle. If you move the axle forward you will increase wheel base but you'll have to modify the steering. After working on dave's Cj, I would suggest you strengthen the frame big time if your french the shackle mounts.

[daniel_buck]

the springs I'm looking at are longer yes, but they are designed to retain the factory mounting locations closest to the bumper, and relocate only the mounts that are towards the center of the vehicle.

But even if those aren't the springs I end up with, and I just go with a set of springs that are 1 inch taller and (hopfully!) a little softer (with better shocks too) I'm still curious if adding an additional 4 inches to the wheel base will do anything for a better ride. Or is it the case that with such a short wheel base to begin with, It wouldn't really be noticeable until it gets quite a bit longer?

[jonah]

Now, where did I put that can of worms I was about to open....

Pushing the front axle forward would help move the weight distribution back which would probably help the bucking some. However I doubt you would notice a big difference with a small move like two inches. I think if you do the front and the back are both pushed out there will be even less difference as the weight distribution will be the same and the little gain of length won't help that much. Mine went from 80 to 92 and if there is nothing in the back and I go over a speed bump the back will kick up a bit. When the bed is loaded (spare tire, cooler, tools) it evens out and I don't notice it. Also, like Kurt said you will be getting into steering mods which can be tricky, maybe moving brake lines and longer driveshafts.

Frenching is a good way to lower a leaf jeep as well as moving the upper shackle mount up into the frame rail or to the front face of the bumper if you are altering wheelbase/spring length. You will definitely want to beef up the frame. To me as soon as you need to do much work to those frames you might as well start over. By the time you cut and fit the plates to box it, clean the original frame, fix all the cracks, weld all the joints I think you could build all new that would be stronger. Of course it is a lot of work either way.

Unless you really want a project I think I would put the softest replacement spring on I could find and drive it. To do all those mods for 4 inch stretch doesn't seem worth it to me. If you are going to really start changing things might as well go all the way.

[daniel_buck]

Yea, I'm not trying to open a can of worms, haha! I kinda want to keep this jeep nice and simple, but a good daily driver. So far, it's been a great daily driver, but if I have to drive more than 20 miles, it's a bit rough. However, it's much better with the new tires, the little bumps go away

And I agree, I'd rather just throw on a set of soft springs and good shocks, and call it a day. However, all of the 'bolt on' springs that use the factory spring mounting points get mixed reviews. I'll see a review like "much better ride quality!" right next to "horrible, worse than stock!". The only spring setup I've read almost universal praise over, is the holbrook long-leaf setup. Which requires moving the inner spring mounts (which I would be fine with), however it gives 3"+ of extra lift, which I don't want.

if I could just find a set of springs that were soft, and didn't give more than than one or two inches of lift, I'd be set

[daniel_buck]

A few folks suggested contacting a custom spring shop, maybe I'll give that a try. See if I can get a quote for springs that fit the factory mounts, but have a higher number of thinner leafs, and set roughly 1" higher (which would be perfect, I think). I contacted Long Beach Spring, see if they get back to me. Any one know of a good custom spring shop?

[curtis]

Have you taken the springs apart to see if they rusted together?

[Ol Man]

When I had my CJ7 I did a shackle reversal on the front. I feel that it gave a better ride on the highway and especially running down a dirt road. I had a four inch lift, ran Rancho 9000 shocks and a 1 inch body lift to fit 35 inch tires. Now, it was no comparison to my JK, as you would expect. I forget what springs I had. I know a friend tried to use the same springs and they were stiffer, altho I drove my CJ7 a lot and he did not.

My FToy has pretty long springs and rides surprisingly well; of course it is fairly light in comparison to the CJ

With all of the suspensions available today, I would probably opt to save my money and link it, especially if you plan to hard core it.

In thinking a bit more, I had suspension seats in the CJ and have in the FToy. I have to believe that also helps with ride quality.

[daniel_buck]

With all of the suspensions available today, I would probably opt to save my money and link it, especially if you plan to hard core it.

Nope, this one isn't going to go hardcore, it's a daily driver, that will see mild trails

[inVERt'D]

Linking it could make it a better DD, but that doesn't really jive with "keeping it simple."

[daniel_buck]

hah, Yea I know links and coil springs would be an awesome ride (my TJ rides awesomely!) But I don't want to think about what's involved in that, there's alot of geometry there, and $. :-)

I must be the only one having a 1940s Willys as a daily driver. because no off-the-shelf springs seem to do the trick :-\

But even still, as rough as my willys rides, I still pass up people on the road, even up hill. Man, if you get passed by an old Willys, you KNOW you need to speed up. haha :-D

[inVERt'D]

Yeah, even of the people who like those old Willy'ses, probably very few would buy one for that purpose, but I like your style. My philosophy is that too much comfort is unhealthy for the soul. At least that's what I used to tell myself driving to work with no doors at 20*F.

Just get yourself a rollcage in that thing, even if you start out with something solid and simple that you can build on.