TJ: could use some help figuring out a bit of wobble on the front end

[daniel_buck]

So I've had a little bit of steering wheel shimmy at around 45mph or so for a while now, it was barely noticeable when it was all factory (very very slight) but now with the 35" tires on, and even more so after I threw on a set of 3" springs this weekend. It's more than noticeable now, it's kind of at the point where it's starting to affect my driving habit (since this weekend, I have been avoiding the 40-50mph range, either cruise at 40, or speed quickly to 50).

While I was under the jeep I looked around at the front end parts, but I honestly don't really know what I'm looking at. Nothing looks or feels loose.

I'm quite sure it's in the front, I can see the front tires wobble back and forth at that particular speed.

On a side note, my steering wheel is crooked, it's off probably 20 degrees or so to the left. This is pretty recent I think, from the last few wheeling trips, which by coincidence (maybe?) have been the first wheeling trips with the 35" tires.

I have Currie HD steering, factory Rubicon D44 with Warn hub conversion and Superior axles up front, Currie 3" springs with Fox shocks and an anti-rock. Other than that, I believe the front end is factory. I have factory control arms up front right now, but i will be replacing them with Currie JJ arms sometime before the end of this year.


So I'm wondering if anyone out there who knows suspension/steering would be willing to take a look at it with me sometime? I don't want to try and do anything this weekend since it's thanksgiving (unless someone just has nothing else to do, hah!) but maybe one Saturday after thanksgiving some time someone could help me out? I live on the west side of LA, just north of LAX. Or I could drive out and meet somewhere else. My selection of tools is adequate for most jobs requiring hand tools, but I have no power tools.

[Black & Tan TJ]

35's will shake out anything loose or worn but it sounds like it could be a combo of things here, probably set-up & alignment. 3" springs might be right at the place where adjustable control arms and trackbars are necessary. Start with the toe-in setting (fairly easy adjustment) then check for axle centering. Unless you added some trackbar relocating brackets they may not be centered, again fairly easy to check. Measure the distance from the frame to edge of tire. As far as looking at it the weekend after Thanksgiving would be the soonest for me and I'm in your area.

Tom

[daniel_buck]

Oh shoot, you are in El Segundo, real close!

I've never done any alignment stuff of any sort, if you don't mind swinging by my place (or I can go to your place) that would be awesome! How does Saturday the 3rd work for you? Or Sunday. I usually like to do things on Saturday though, so if I run out of light on saturday I still have one more day before I need to drive it to work

As for the track bar, no i have not done anything to that (front or rear), it still has the factory mounts I believe. I do have adjustable (JJ) arms in the rear, but not in the front yet. That's next up on my list. Might I better order up a track bar relocation bracket? or is that not always needed?

The wheels have been balanced, I didn't notice any difference in the wheel shimmy after they were balanced. Oh, and the Currie steering has been on there for about 1 year (30k miles), same with the steering stabilizer. I know that the stabilizer doesn't fix the wobble problem, but since I'm pretty sure I've had the wobble (even if only very minor) since I've owned the jeep, i wonder if the stabilizer is ready to be replaced too? (after the wobble is actually corrected, I mean)

[Black & Tan TJ]

Going with Currie though expensive is good, probably the best out there. They may have a relocate bracket for the stock trackbar but for the front get the new JJ one when you get arms. For now about all we could do is toe-in and check the other stuff. If your alignment or steering wheel position changes after wheelin there are a few things that could be happening, in my case the front trackbar mount welded to the frame was breaking off and probably causing some wiggle too. I've seen this a few times now, them breaking off so will check that too. If we're just checking and adjusting toe-in that only takes an hour or so, tomorrow after work could be a possiblity for that. PM a phone number and we can see what we can work out. I usually get home around 5pm and have a lighted garage.

Tom

[aw12345]

If the position of the steering wheel changed after running Cougar buttes, something bend. The currie tierod and draglink will bend if you hit them hard enough. Bend mine several times just press them back to original shape, no harm done. Check the front draglink and mounts to for bending and the draglink bolts for being tight. Then all of the steering components for play, the front wheels and tires for run out since they are balanced, you didn't knock any weights of did you? When you have tires balanced on your Jeep have them use stick on weights and preferably only on the back side of the rim. Also a good steering damper say from Rancho helps a lot mine will shimmy and woble without one. As long as the damper is on there it it doesn't. Not the preferred way of solving the issue, but it works for me.
I hope this helps, TJ's are prone to shimmying around that speed.

[daniel_buck]

I didn't hit anything really hard while at CB that instantly made it turn, it's just slowly over the passed few trips gotten more and more off center as best I can tell.

[aw12345]

I didn't hit anything really hard while at CB that instantly made it turn, it's just slowly over the passed few trips gotten more and more off center as best I can tell.

Well it doesn't change adjustment so something is bend. If you have the stock trackbar then there is a good change that one is the culprit

[daniel_buck]

Yes, the trackbars are stock. I will lprobably eventually replace both of them with Currie track bars.

[Roundeyes]

If nothing is bent then maybe your new springs are starting to sag. That will make the steering wheel go out off center.
For the wobble check you TRE’s one or more will probably be worn out. The bushing in the control arms could be worn out. Yes like mention above it could be a combo of things. Everything needs to be tight.
What valving are you running in the front Fox shocks (Compression/Rebound)?

[6spdYJ]

The springs will push your frame higher away from your axle. If you didn't change anything else, your drag link will effectively pull the steering wheel to the right. It acually would pull the passenger's side wheel to the left, but since it has contact with the ground the steering wheel has less resistance and gives up first.
If you were to take your springs out completely and let the front axle hang loose, you would see that it will swing downward and back. If you were to continue this travel, eventually the front of the axle would be facing straight down. Your steering relies on the front spindles leaning backwards a few degrees (caster) to keep the wheels self-centering. Think of a shopping cart. Have you ever noticed that the steering casters are behind the pivot point? This allows them to follow the lead point where they attach to the frame. If they were directly below, you couldn't steer the dang thing. Have you ever had to push a shopping cart with a few bearings missing in the front wheel pivots? Death wobble in a shopping cart. By putting the longer springs in, you have cranked your front axle to point more toward th front, therefore reducing your caster. Do you have caster adjustment bolts, or adjustable lower arms? The bottom of the axle probably needs to come farther forward to restore your caster.
Next is the 35's. By making a bigger circle, your actual toe-in is more severe. Say with 31's you had a toe-in of 1/4". The 35's reach farther forward, but still have the same center point. If you were to measure the to-in at the 15.5" radius, it would still be the same. But, you have now moved your toes 2" farther out in the radius, so say to-in is now actually 3/8". Some guys have had to actually do toe-out to get rid of the wobble. This can cause additional scrubbing and tread blocks actually grabbing and unloading as the tire rotates. It's unlikely that this would be enough to cause death wobble, but it certainly can't help it.
Consider that if nothing else changed on the axle itself, just tire diameter, the only thing that changes is the time that your tire makes contact with the ground. If you walk toward a wall, you can predict when you will make contact with said wall. Now do it with your arm extended, nothing else has changed except the time you make contact. You will need to make adjustments to have the steering respond at the same time as it would as if you were still on stock size tires.

[daniel_buck]

Thanks for the replies. I've still got tons to learn

6spdYJ, I do not have adjustable front control arms yet, those are next up on my list unless Tom and I find something under there that looks like it needs replacing or relocating first. And I'm guessing I don't have caster adjustment bolts. For the adjustable control arms, ideally I'd get a set of all 4 at once, but if I end up having to purchase other parts in addition, would just a set of lower adjustable control arms be sufficient to make the adjustments needed? (I'd still be wanting to replace the uppers though, eventually)

Roundeyes, I do not know the valving on the shocks, they are the valving that Savvy has specified. They ride a bit firmer than my previous BDS setup (which rode as smooth as a Cadillac!), and I've not yet had a chance to try them offroad yet (just put them on a few days ago). But before I do any real offroading again I want to have some more experienced eyes on the underside of my jeep to check out the rest of the suspension before I start flexing around the new parts, since I have a feeling some other adjustments/replacements are going to be needed. I can usually feel my way around and get parts installed on my own without problems, but when it comes to diagnosing and adjusting suspension, I've got zero experience with that :-)

[Roundeyes]

Check the link bellow I learned a lot about the Demon in you Jeep.

http://www.kevinsoffroad.com/how-to-...-death-wobble/

[daniel_buck]

Thank you Tom, I appreciate your help tonight! And very nice to meet you.

We adjusted and tightened a few parts, and the steering wheel shimmy is significantly reduced now! But quite apparent that I need adjustable track bars! So that's on the list now :-) I have a much better understanding of the suspension parts, thanks Tom! I'm sure I'll have more questions later :-D

[Black & Tan TJ]

Thank you Tom, I appreciate your help tonight! And very nice to meet you.

We adjusted and tightened a few parts, and the steering wheel shimmy is significantly reduced now! But quite apparent that I need adjustable track bars! So that's on the list now :-) I have a much better understanding of the suspension parts, thanks Tom! I'm sure I'll have more questions later :-D

Every little bit helps.
You bring a positive approach that will be passed on. Anytime.

Cheers! Tom

[daniel_buck]

I finally got around to putting on a new front track bar, (currie adjustable JJ). I can't say 100% for sure just yet, but from the first test drive down the road and back, I think what little shimmy in the steering wheel that was left might be completely gone now! Not sure if this is because the axle is more centered right now (it's not perfect, but it's pretty close, alot closer than it was!) or if maybe one of the joints on the factory track bar were going bad. But either way, I'm happy!

Anyone have a Currie rear track bar relocator bracket installed? I have one that I'm going to hopefully put on this weekend (along with a new rear track bar) but I'm having trouble visualizing exactly how the bracket goes on. I crawled under there today after finishing up the front, and I'm a little confused as to how the bracket mounts. Anyone have a photo of how it's supposed to be mounted?