Need a little advice (as in huge heaping piles of help)

[nwoods]

I don't know squat about Jeeps. I did finally figure out the letter code thing, but other than that, pretty clueless.

I'm thinking of getting a Jeep. I have no money, so it should be easy right? Sky is the limit :-)

I off road a lot. The purpose of this Jeep to go further and farther into the rocks and trails and wilderness that off roading can get me.

It needs to be civil on the road, but excellent off road, and by that I mean NOT LIKELY TO BREAK. Currently, I have little in the means of mechanical knowhow, experience or tools. I am not gifted with my hands as some mechanics seem to be. That is a real and and serious limitation, and has a tremendous impact on what I need to buy. However, I am wanting to learn! This Jeep will be a third vehicle, with the idea of fixing as much as I can with basic tools. (I do have a nice hammer).

I'm tall, and have a wife and kids that will go wheeling with me. We like to Camp. I have noticed Jeeps are a bit on the small side. I'm concerned about that. It will be a big adjustment! How do you guys fit everything you need for camping into/onto your Jeeps?

I am considering a TJ Unlimited (technically an LJ?).

I know that a Rubicon has the D44's and lockers, but not sure what else they have over a regular X or Sport or whatever that justifies the cost.

I would probably run 33" tires, but I don't know what kind of axle/diff/gearing I should look to get to accomplish that.

I intend to have lockers front and rear, but I don't know if it's better to go ARB, Detroit, TruTrack, etc..

I would only consider the 6 cylinder, as even that feel pretty underpowered to me. Unfortunately, to enable me to drive the distances I intend to go in this Jeep, I am limiting myself to an automatic unless there is a really good compelling reason to go 5 speed. I can drive a stick just fine, but I have a bad right knee that is exasperated by the cramped cockpit in the Jeep. Traffic kills me, so I really want an automatic.

I have seen a ton of different tops out there, not sure the pluses and minus of them, other than storage, noise, temperature (maybe?).

When you wheel in a Jeep, how bad is the dust? (local SoCal trails). After a day on the trail, my LR3 is coated with dust inside and out, and that is with the windows up and recirc on.

I anticipate having a 4" lift, I really like the Rubicon Express 4.5" kit, but that's mostly because it's the ONLY kit I am aware of :-)

I have no idea what kind of costs I should expect to build up a high mileage TJ into a nice trail rig. I don't know what items I should include to build it up. I am thinking front and rear steel bumpers, swayaway tire/hilift carrier. 4" lift, lockers, 33's, Hella 4000's, etc... Do I need a new roll bar? Do I need any kind of underbody protection? sliders? gas tank skid plates? What other mods must be done? Anything to the transmission? Driveshafts? U-joints? What is the difference between a long arm and short arm? How does that apply?

What year of Jeep should I be looking for? What common problems do most higher mileage Jeeps experience? What year of Jeep should I stay away from?

Are there many silver or white Jeeps out there? I sure don't see many, but that's my favorite!

So, if you can, please help me out. Please help me put together a shopping list, recommended products, sources, costs, and advice.

Or...point me to where i can find it.

Thanks!

Nathan

[miguelitojeep97]

ok first off....a Jeep wrangler is the best vehicle for your needs. Depending on how much you are willing to sepend, a Unlimited, Rubicon or Sport is great! If you dont NEED a 4 link coil set up (even though you get way more flex, inside comfort and better axles, then a YJ is the way to go. Leaf spring lift are way cheap. BUT you said you want on and offroad capability. I would go with a TJ. I have 97 TJ and love it to death. The only reason I would want a onger wheelbase, is if i had some 39s or bigger. For moderate, to JV trails 35s are neccessary. But depending on how well you know off to go 4 wheeling, you should should start small and work your way up. If I could do it on the side I would buy a crap TJ put a big engine, tranny, and t-case andn then build Dana 60s on the side. Make it bullet proof to begone with.

you have to think of both on and offroad finess. Also how big of tires and how hard you are going to wheel it. THEN, search search search and do more searching to find the cheapest set up you can do for whats in your wallet. if you have the walet for it, then call up Dynatrac, currie or 4hweel parts. good luck and please let us know how it turns out




after reading more of your post, I cant stress enough to search all over. www.Pirate4x4.com www.stu-offroad.com www.4x4xplor.com and www.4x4wire.com and several others. If you have wheeled before you know a little and should know what tire size you want to run. Big tires require big suspension, big brakes, big steering, and big power along with heavy duty axles. Besides stregth you should always have skids on all the important parts before you go on big trails. i.e. gas tank, sterring box, oil pan, crossmember, oil pan, diffs

[YJwonderboy]

Hey! Nice Choice! I don't whole heartedly agree with what miguel said. The Wrangler is in NO WAY the BEST offroad vehicle. (that's a matter of opinion!) There are lots of other jeeps out there that provide a great deal of comfort and are very capable. The Cherokees are very capable, and very nice to drive. The Wrangler are more desired because of their short wheelbase. If you're wheeling a Wrangler, and taking the wife and kids along, space will probably be an issue if you staying there for more than a day trip. If you're camping near your trails, than a second vehicle to get you to your camp site would be necessary.(You DD should work fine, as it's a public camp site...it's gonna be flat enough to drive on right?) Anywho...if you want more space the LJ is a little bigger than the TJ...not a WHOLE lot. You do have some more space behind the rear seat, but it's built on the idea of the the Old CJ6's and the CJ8 Scramblers...little more cargo room, not a more spread out back seat. If you want those critter comforts, a more spacious interior, and a decent offroad vehicle...than you may want to look into an XJ (Talk to swbooking....He's got a sweet XJ than is totally sick!!) if you want you can always get a hitch, and a small enclosed trailer for your camping gear...and then your TJ should be fine for travel. You kids might get a little cramped in the back, but hey...it builds character...right? For ride quality, go TJ. It's got coils front and rear, and there is a wider ranged aftermarket for them. The YJ is another great wrangler. You're sacrificing the ride quality for a bumpier jeep, but it's still wonderful off-road. It seems there is a lessening market for the YJ's since the JK was introduced, but take a look at these sites to help you look into finding a jeep you like. You MAY just decide on one from the goodies you buy for them!!

Quadratec
JCWhitney
The retail site for 4WD magazine

[steelman]

I am considering a TJ Unlimited (technically an LJ?).

Technically a TJ Unlimited. "LJ" is a Jeepers term for the TJ Unlimited, but is not a term used by DC, unlike TJ/YJ/CJ, etc. Ask mrblaine how I know!

[Giffer]

i dont know what everyone here thinks of the liberty? KJ's right? well anyways they seem to be a well built jeep, very capable and inexpesive. the room in side is better the any of the YJ/TJ/CJ. and the deisel you can get has got some wicked torque. just an idea. you can keep your camping gear inside, and the wife too!

[crazy_wolf168]

I went with the JK 4 door with 3 kids and the wife we still have a lot of room. the cargo area is a lot bigger almost like the older 80's Cherokees. the Cherokees not a bad idea good room and I know they off road very well m brother has a 86 with a 5.0 out of a cobra mustang stuffed in it and we take it all over the place. Now that I think of it its for sell think he is asking 4k for it siting on BFG at 32's lol. there are a lot of jeeps out there for what you are looking for I think the wrangler any lettering or the Cherokee is better for the off roading but that just me.

[maddmike]

IMO, having no money and wanting a TJ unlimited rubi to be built with a 4" lift is a contradiction in itself, especially if you want something reliable that you can fix yourself. here are my thoughts for your needs:

OPTION 1: for 5K you can get a used cherokee 2 door or 4 door stock. basically bulletproof and almost as capable as a TJ and will get you everywhere you'd ever want to go. be careful about the year/model you pick up and you can get one with a TJ transfer case and better axles than a TJ, which would allow you to lock it up with 33" tires with no axle upgrades necessary. install ARB lockers front and rear, and 4.10 gears and you should be all set. leave the rest stock. most are auto, 5-speeds are hard to find so you are OK there. problem is they are a little on the small side but a roof rack installation for your intended use is much easier than a TJ since the roof doesn't come off.

OPTION 2: buy a used mid-90's toyota land cruiser. cheap, reliable, bigger than a cherokee, solid axles, part time T-case, probably a better option than a cherokee. these things are built for african expeditions and you'd probably be able to drive it more miles than a jeep with less problems. plus you can get zillions of aftermarket crap for it to gear it up for what you need, including great lift kits.

anything you put on that is aftermarket will either have more likelihood to break than stock parts, or will have a likelihood to make stock parts break, so IMO the more parts you can keep stock you will be better off for your needs, especially if you aren't carrying around spares and lots of tools.

cheers and good luck,

[Mtbikbob]

I don't know squat about Jeeps.
So, if you can, please help me out. Please help me put together a shopping list, recommended products, sources, costs, and advice............................................ .................................................. .................................................. ...................
Or...point me to where i can find it.

Thanks!

Nathan

Wow.... lots of input wanted..... your beginning to sound like me when I send in questions to my architect. ok..just kiddin around.
IMO....it all depends on really what you want, the kind of ride you want, the room inside. I do agree with Mike about the room of the Cherokee and the ability. Allen can tell you about that. The traditional jeep, its short wheelbase on the road is hard to get used to, if your trained to feel the ride of a longer wheelbase vehicle. Hmmmm...lots to consider, too little time for me here. Family with kids.... yup, you need room.

[nwoods]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm renting a Jeep tomorrow and intent to hand the wife the keys and point her towards the Cleghorn. It's a 90 minute freeway commute, plus the trail (we have a large Land Rover group going through there on Sunday). That should be a good test of whether or not a Wrangler will work for us.

Many of the suggestions focused on an SUV verses Wrangler, which I found interesting. But since I already own a capable 4x4 SUV (my LR3), I am really only thinking about an open top Wrangler.

Basic question: What is the difference or meaning between Short Arm and/or long arm suspension?

I assume it means the control arms, providing a wider stance and more articulation with the long arms?

Are they both relevant to same year/model of Jeep? Are factory arms considered short arms?

What year did Wranglers go away from leaf springs?
How hard is it to convert an older leafspring Jeep into a more modern 3 link or 4 link set up? Are there kits for that?

Thanks,

NW

[nwoods]

I went with the JK 4 door with 3 kids and the wife we still have a lot of room. the cargo area is a lot bigger almost like the older 80's Cherokees. the Cherokees not a bad idea good room and I know they off road very well m brother has a 86 with a 5.0 out of a cobra mustang stuffed in it and we take it all over the place. Now that I think of it its for sell think he is asking 4k for it siting on BFG at 32's lol. there are a lot of jeeps out there for what you are looking for I think the wrangler any lettering or the Cherokee is better for the off roading but that just me.

Crazy Wolf, have you had your JK out on the trails yet? What does it feel like to wheel something that new and shiny, and expensive! Do you have any pictures? I'd love to see some 4 door action on the trail.

Regards,

NW

[crazy_wolf168]

yes I have did echo canyon the one coming out of death valley back to Nevada. and a lot of snow and mudding if feels really good suspension is much better and I have 33''s under it with out lifting its a long wheel base 119" and 5 1/2"'s wider then the 06 so it is a lot smother over some things and try es to high center on others like long wheel base like to do lol but over all I love it the kids love it and the wife loves it and if they like it that means I get to go out more lol.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/crazy_wolf168/album

let me know it this works go to jeep pics and you will see alot of pics of my jeep

[Dukes69]

Basic question: What is the difference or meaning between Short Arm and/or long arm suspension?

Short arm lifts maintain the stock control arm mounting locations and are plug and play.

Long arms are just that, longer control arms. All require moving the frame control arm mounts.

The internet says that long arms lifts are the way to go, however a PROPERLY set up short arm lift can ride just as nice and have less stuff to hang up on underneath.

I assume it means the control arms, providing a wider stance and more articulation with the long arms?

I guess see above. Long arms will not give you more articulation. Articulation is great for showing off, but doesn't have much of a place in real world wheeling.

Are they both relevant to same year/model of Jeep? Are factory arms considered short arms?

All 97-06 TJ (SWB and LWB) come with short arms.

What year did Wranglers go away from leaf springs?

1995.5 was the last year of the YJ and the end to leafs. 1997 was the first year of the TJ and coil springs

How hard is it to convert an older leafspring Jeep into a more modern 3 link or 4 link set up? Are there kits for that?

Depends on how much fab work you can handle. To my knowlege there is only one kit to convert a YJ to coils and thats the Black Diamond kit (IIRC made by warn). Its not cheap either. Anything else will have to be custom.

[Dukes69]

Re-reading your first post I would suggest you look into an 07 4 door rubicon. You can do allmost everything in so cal with that. In fact you can do almost everything in a stock tj on 31's with proper skids and such.

Good Luck

[maddmike]

In fact you can do almost everything in a stock tj on 31's with proper skids and such.

X2 I agree with chris, and have before i installed my lift even without lockers but with an occasional strap tug.

[nwoods]

Re-reading your first post I would suggest you look into an 07 4 door rubicon. You can do allmost everything in so cal with that. In fact you can do almost everything in a stock tj on 31's with proper skids and such.

Good Luck

That is the $35,000 answer I was afraid of!

I rented an 07 'X' 2 door this weekend for my wife to drive. We did the Cleghorn trail on Sunday and ran most of the offshoots. The tires on the rental were positively anemic (225/85/16 Goodyear street tires), but still, she had no problems. The traction control on the Jeep worked great (it had no lockers other than the low range Transfer case).

She loved it. Quote: "Topless is fun!"