CJ: running fuel lines. I have a few questions

[daniel_buck]

I'm putting in a standard rectangle fuel cell behind the seats in my Willys, 15 gallon, 30x9x12". It may not be the final fuel solution, but at least for now it will get that old 10 gallon tank out of the way, and give me more usable space and a more reasonable capacity.

Anyway, It's hose fittings are -08 AN. My fuel pump is mechanical. Right now there is a hard line going from about the middle of the jeep, all the way up into the engine bay, then a very short soft line going to the pump.

I'm guessing it would be ok to re-use the hard line, but would it be better to run an braided hose all the way from the fuel cell to the fuel pump? Or is it better to have a hardline going most of the way? I figure if I'm going to be replacing some of the fuel lines, might as well replace them all, eh? The soft line going from the hardline to the pump looks kind of old and cracking, even though I replaced i only 6 months ago. So I'd kinda like to replace all of that anyway.

Any reason I SHOULDN'T run a braided hose all the way to the pump? Looks like braided lines are sold in a variety of lengths with the AN fittings already attached. Then I'd get an adapter I assume, to fit the line into the fuel pump.

I don't know if there are cheaper braided lines, Russell was just what I saw alot of when doing google searches so that's just what I'm looking at right now.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Russell/Russel...62635/10002/-1

[inVERt'D]

Both hard and soft lines have their places where they work best. Like brake lines, flexible fuel lines are needed to handle movement, like when the engine moves under torque. Any fuel-rated rigid line is going to be easier to secure against movement and flopping around which is likely to result in abrasion or other damage which will eventually destroy the line. Even stainless steel braiding will wear out if allowed to rub or contact a steel part that vibrates. In fact, solid steel will wear through and I've seen that more than once on the steel fittings of rubber brake lines that were allowed to rub against coil springs.

My 2000 TJ's pressure line has OEM stainless steel braided fuel line going from the frame to the engine, OEM aluminum hard line along the frame rail, and an OEM short plastic hard line (which can flex some) going to the pump. I added some steel line when I moved the tank into the tub, but I've always intended to replace it with some good braided line when money allows. I want to be able to move the tank around without dealing with hard fuel lines.

EDIT: Actually I think the TJ's OEM hard pressure line is stainless, but I don't recall for sure.

[curtis]

Steel line is used because of cost and abrasion factor. So if you can protect the line, it's good.

[aw12345]

The big thing on fuel lines is securing them and keeping them from chafing on sharp edges or anything that could possibly cut them.
Steel line properly secured is a good thing (doesn't dry rot) A dry rotted suction hose will drive you nuts.

[daniel_buck]

Sounds like plenty of reasons to just leave the factory hard line in tact, and run soft lines on either end of it to get to the pump, and the tank

In that case, I might as well just use regular old fuel hoses and hose clamps?

[inVERt'D]

If the steel hard line is old, check it for corrosion. If it is corroded inside or out, or otherwise has problems, replace it. If the rubber hoses are more than a few years old, I would replace them on principle. Gasoline is harsh nowadays. I would use a high-quality, lined rubber fuel line. On the other hand, if you have money burning a hole in your pocket and want to dress your rig up, buy her something fancy...

[aw12345]

Sounds like plenty of reasons to just leave the factory hard line in tact, and run soft lines on either end of it to get to the pump, and the tank

In that case, I might as well just use regular old fuel hoses and hose clamps?

Good quality fuel hose from gates or equivalent would be fine. pay attention to where you run it through the floor. Use a good rubber grommet or something even if you run a steel line up. I would try to run as little rubber hose as possible

[RAT]

As little hard line as you would have to use in that application I would just go buy a 10' stick of 1/4" SS tubing and bend up a real nice hard line from tank to Carb. It would look nice nice. And is the most durable.

[daniel_buck]

Bending up the hardline sounds fun, I think I would actually enjoy that, haha! Just a beer bottle neck for making bends?

Now that I'm thinking about it, I'd be running the hard line on the opposite side of the jeep, so it wouldn't really make sense to try and re-use the old hard lines. Well, at least that's where I'd probably start the line on the opposite side. In a feeble attempt to counter the "willys lean" I'm going to be mounting my fuel and water more towards the passenger side. lol

I think I'd at least want soft line for the last 1/2 foot or so before the mechanical pump though, right? for engine vibration? I think the factory tank had hard line coming straight out of the tank.

I measured it out, and then sketched it. It's going to be a damn fine fit, haha! ice chest will go on top of the water and tool bag, and camping gear will get strapped on top of the tools, oil, 911, food and spare parts locations.

And if I'm going on a trip that will most likely not need extra fuel capacity, I can remove the 5 gallon jerry can, and get a bit of extra space in there.

I can't believe how well the fuel cell and ammo can will fit in there! it's going to be tight, but it should all fit, I measured several times, haha, it was a 3 beer problem

[daniel_buck]

Ok, SO! I have the fuel cell now, and I've got questions :-D

First, is how to plug up the return line, and what to use for a vent?

The "rollover vent" port has a ball in side of there, so I assume that IS the check valve. I just need some sort of vent on top? Is that as simple as a crank case breather or something? Or does 'vent' mean simply run a hose from there to where ever you want the fumes to vent off at, if you don't want them venting right there? or what would normally go there? Reason I'm asking is I don't seem to be finding any fittings for that on Summit or Jegs. The vents all seem to have a check valve built into them. Well the fuel cell already seems to have a check valve, so what do I put there?

I'm not in an enclosed vehicle, the most I'll ever have is a bikini top. But since the fuel cell is RIGHT behind the seats, I'd probably prefer to at least use a hose to have the vent exit a little farther away from the seats? Like maybe straight down and exit on the underside of the tub?

For the return line, well I don't have one. So I guess it just needs to be plugged up?

[inVERt'D]

You've come a long way since you declared that you definitely wouldn't be putting it in the tub. Last week?

Cap the return line fitting.

There are different schemes for those vents. Yours just uses an -8 fitting. You could buy a line or make one. You should run a line towards the aft so you don't have to smell or the fumes it will let out. Run a vent filter at the termination so fumes can go out, and crap won't go in. Don't put the line termination somewhere where it's likely to drip onto you. The following page has one that happens to work for an Atlas t/c as well (but not at the same time .

http://www.fuelsafe.com/catalog/Page-26.html

For additional rollover safety, assume that the check valve will malfunction. Route the line so as to create a plumber's trap of sorts. A canister style fuel filter between the tank and the vent filter can catch and hold a certain amount of escaping fuel. A manual shutoff valve would also be a very good thing.

Make sure the filler has a flap valve.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Fuel_Cell/

I should add that the check valve probably won't work flopped onto your side or on other steep angles.

[daniel_buck]

Yea, kind of a change of plans :-\

I wanted the fuel to be under the vehicle, for extra space. But when I started measuring underneath last week, I didn't see any way to get a 15 gallon tank under there, at least not one that I could find already made. People said that a DJ (mail delivery truck) tank should fit under there, but I didn't see how it was going to happen.

So in the mean time, this will be the solution. And will be easy to remove if/when I find something that works under the tub. Or I could add it back in later so that there's two tanks, for long trips (I like long trips!)

[inVERt'D]

Nah, just leave it in the tub. It's just what cool kids do.

[daniel_buck]

So the more I think about how to run these lines, and the more I look at the parts available on summit/jegs, I just get more frustrated. The hoses/lines in the jeep right now are 1/4" (hard line is 1/4" OD, soft line is 1/4" ID). The fittings on the fuel cell are -08AN. To go from a -08AN to a 1/4" soft or hard line, seems like I'd need to run at least two adapters. It seems kind of ghetto to stack adapters.

So, is there any reason I should stick with the 1/4" hose? Will 1/2" hose maybe be to much for the mechanical pump to pull? I can go from -08an female, to 1/2" barbed connection (to push on a soft hose with a hose clamp) with just ONE adapter. I like that.


I guess I'm just getting overwhelmed with the sheer amount of options and sizes, it's mind boggling the number of different connections and sizes! Kinda like grabbing toothpaste in Target. There's 60 different types, all I want is regular old toothpaste darn it! And on top of that, almost all of these adapter fittings and suchs are bright blue and red! Why is it bright colors? What's wrong with just black, or shiny metal, a color that goes with everything? I don't want blue and red on my jeep, my jeep is green and black. haha

I need another beer.

[inVERt'D]

headline: Red and Blue Drive Artist Over Edge

1/2" ID hose is definitely too much for your pressure line. Don't sweat the vent line size too much--just whatever it takes to plumb it with the options you want. Don't cut your ear off just yet. It will come together, and be worth the effort.