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Brake Petal Question (& Clutch Story)

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  • TJ: Brake Petal Question (& Clutch Story)

    I have a question about the brake petal travel distance, but first I want to tell the story of how I got to this point. It is something that folks with a manual transmission may find useful and it is definitely a message to check those things that 'just don't seem right' when you first notice them.

    My clutch petal has been loose for a while now. By loose, I mean that the petal would bounce a little. More recently, it has gotten very loose and sort of flopped back and forth on the trails. Just for the record, I know that petals are not supposed to have any play, I just didn't think to check it until it started getting worse.

    I found the problem pretty quickly once I finally stuffed myself up under the dash. It required that I remove the brake and clutch petal assembly to fix it. That is a major pain in the neck (literally, you can only use one arm while stuffing yourself into the driver's side floorboard, so your head is cocked sideways during the entire multi-hour adventure).

    After several hours, I finally had the assembly out of the Jeep:


    The problem is this:

    That is the pin that connects the clutch push rod to the clutch petal. That nice sized shark-bite out of the side of it is from the lack of a bushing and many years of driving it that way.

    The eye for the clutch push rod faired better, but not by much:


    I am heading to Moab at the end of the month and the only thing that kept going through my mind was "what if I didn't check this and the pin snapped on a shelf ledge like the one's on Moab Rim or Cliffhanger?"

    Nasty images are still haunting me. :hide:

    I used this motivation to take the time to take the assembly out so that I could fill-weld and grind down the damaged pieces:




    I was also amazed to find that not only was the bushing gone, but the plastic clip that holds the clutch push rod onto the pin was barely existant. It broke when I removed it, but this is all that was left:


    I used the clip from the brake pin as a guide and created a replacement clip out of some 18 guage sheet metal. Not as sophisticated as the original, but it worked very well:


    Moral of the story is: Petals are not supposed to have play. If yours does, check it SOONER rather than later!


    Okay, now for my brake petal question.

    When I put the petal assembly back in, the brake petal doesn't go out to it's original resting spot. It stops before engaging the sensor that turns the brake lights off. Instead of letting the brake lights stay on constantly, I put some thick felt padding on the end of the sensor button so that it would turn the lights off. That is only a temporary fix.

    Any idea why my brake petal travel distance is not the same as it was before I started?
    [COLOR=#ff8c00]MYJEEP(crawls)ROCKS(again).com

    I have finally stopped drinking for good.
    Now I drink for evil..... :devil:
    [/COLOR]

  • #2
    Mike, do you have disc or drum rears? If it's drum, the springs should pull a bit of pressure back into the wheel cylinders - if a spring is broke inside the backing assembly, you may have lost some of the pressure. I don't recall if there is a pedal return spring under the dash. Or you may possibly have a bad master cylinder. The only other thing that comes to mind is if you have an adjustable brake pushrod (YJ's do) by having the slop in the pivot, the pushrod may have shaken loose and turned itself in. No matter what, I'm glad you caught it! I had flashbacks to the K-5 that lost it's brakes on Lion's Back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbkTncjEOs Take care.
    God forgives, rocks don't
    -sons of thunder

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    • #3
      Are you sure it is not a self adjusting switch and all you have to do is pull the plunger out a bit?
      By the way petals belong on flowers lol, them thar things are pedals, some have a stop of sorts that keeps them from going higher than intended. Another fix would be to drill the pedal stick a bolt through it, use a heim joint, cut the end of the pedal rod, thread the pedal rod and screw the heim on it. The problem is that your original pedal had the pin and the rod end case hardened, you did a nice job welding it, but mild steel welding wire is not all that hard so it will wear quite a bit faster than the original setup

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      • #4
        MBFAM,
        Do you still have the same "feel" in the brake pedal you had before? If so I would check the switch like Art suggests. If not, check to see that the pedal tree is flush up against the firewall. If you trap the carpet or insualtion between the tree and floorboard the pedal won't return all the way. If that is good, possibly bleed the brakes. That may give you more pedal again. Also, Art's right about the steel integrity. You will have to inspect and grease that pin regularly or it will wear out fast.
        [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000]Resistance Off Road
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        • #5
          Wow. Now it makes sense. Glad you found it now and not 2 weeks from now. If it's still out I would have to agree with Art as well. A heim would be a much better fix. Might have been easier to swap in a auto.
          Check out .

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          • #6
            Ha! Sorry. At least I was consistent in how I misspelled pedal. I know better too, oh well.

            Originally posted by 6spdYJ View Post
            The only other thing that comes to mind is if you have an adjustable brake pushrod (YJ's do) by having the slop in the pivot, the pushrod may have shaken loose and turned itself in.
            I know that the brake push rod to the booster got turned a few times trying to get the pedal assembly out, so I tried spinning the pushrod both directions and measuring the distance. It unfortunately didn't change. The gap between the pedal and the contact for the brake light switch is 1/4 inch, so it is a petty big change in pedal or switch position.

            Originally posted by aw12345 View Post
            Are you sure it is not a self adjusting switch and all you have to do is pull the plunger out a bit?
            By the way petals belong on flowers lol, them thar things are pedals,
            My Haynes books says that they are the adjustable type, but the drawings that they show look nothing like mine. Regardless, this seems like the right answer to the problem, but I pulled on the plunger pretty hard and it would not extend. I am afraid to pull too hard since it is just a plastic piece. I think that I am going to have a look at a new one at the auto parts store to see how they function. Maybe mine is just stuck.

            Originally posted by aw12345 View Post
            Another fix would be to drill the pedal stick a bolt through it, use a heim joint, cut the end of the pedal rod, thread the pedal rod and screw the heim on it. The problem is that your original pedal had the pin and the rod end case hardened, you did a nice job welding it, but mild steel welding wire is not all that hard so it will wear quite a bit faster than the original setup
            In hindsight, I really wish that I had done this fix instead. As it is now, the assembly is back in the Jeep and I don't think that my bruised ribs (caused by taking it out the first time) will withstand me removing it again anytime soon.

            Originally posted by rat patrol View Post
            MBFAM,
            Do you still have the same "feel" in the brake pedal you had before? If so I would check the switch like Art suggests. If not, check to see that the pedal tree is flush up against the firewall. If you trap the carpet or insualtion between the tree and floorboard the pedal won't return all the way. If that is good, possibly bleed the brakes. That may give you more pedal again. Also, Art's right about the steel integrity. You will have to inspect and grease that pin regularly or it will wear out fast.
            The brake feel is the same and the brakes don't seem to be dragging. For the clutch, I bought the hard plastic factory bushing to replace the one that was missing. I am hoping that the bushing will prevent the wear for a while. I will DEFINITELY keep an eye on it though.
            [COLOR=#ff8c00]MYJEEP(crawls)ROCKS(again).com

            I have finally stopped drinking for good.
            Now I drink for evil..... :devil:
            [/COLOR]

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            • #7
              Might consider a bronze bushing.
              God forgives, rocks don't
              -sons of thunder

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              • #8
                I have a set of those pedals you can have.
                Let me know if you want them.
                You'll have to pick up in Quail Valley.
                >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
                ERIK


                95 yj, locked lifted, and ready to rock!

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                • #9
                  Wow, that pin was scary thin, glad you checked it!

                  And thanks for posting this, I built my brake pedal with some cold rolled steel for a pin, I didn't really think about it wearing that bad. I am going to watch it a bit closer now.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NAILER341 View Post
                    I have a set of those pedals you can have.
                    Let me know if you want them.
                    You'll have to pick up in Quail Valley.
                    Thanks Eric. Quail valley isn't too far from me, especially for free. But taking the damn things out was more effort than I am willing to attempt again soon. If the pin begins to wear quickly, I may change my mind.

                    BTW, I ended up with your York OBA. It will take me a while to get it installed, but I am looking forward to the better air flow. Shoot me PM when you get a chance. I'd like to know where you had the tank mounted.
                    [COLOR=#ff8c00]MYJEEP(crawls)ROCKS(again).com

                    I have finally stopped drinking for good.
                    Now I drink for evil..... :devil:
                    [/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I found a post on a different forum that had the service manual description and service instructions for the brake light switch. Using these, I took the switch out and tried to get the so called 'adjustable' pushrod pulled out. It was pushed all the way in. It wouldn't come out so I took pliers to it...
                      It came out. ALL the way out!

                      A little panicked, I took a good look at the construction of the pushrod and guessed that it would return to it's normal positon if pushed back in...

                      I guessed right. I pushed it in until it clicked once. I then installed it back into the pedal assembly and set the brake pedal into place.

                      It works like the factory intended.

                      Thanks for all the advice everyone. I don't think that I would have figured this out without your help.
                      [COLOR=#ff8c00]MYJEEP(crawls)ROCKS(again).com

                      I have finally stopped drinking for good.
                      Now I drink for evil..... :devil:
                      [/COLOR]

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