really fun wiring problem that i need help with

[4wheelinmike]

I have a pretty big problem...when my headlights are off and my left turn signal is on my whole dash blinks with the blinkers, when my headlights are on my turn signal indicator stays on and when I need to use the left turnsignal it doesn't work, and finally when the Jeep is off and the lights are on an the turn signal is in the left turn position I can here it click the dash bliniks and so does the radio and cig lighter but the blinker does not blink. I had the whole dash apart and everything off the wires and I couldn't see anything shorting to power or touching any other wires. Can anyone else give me any clues of where else to look or what it could be?

[Lumpy Grits]

Have you messed with the wiring in the past? IF so, what did you do?
Respectfully,
LG

[aw12345]

Check ground wires coming of the instrument panel to the body or any and all ground connections on the instrument cluster, goofy problems like that are almost always a ground problem

[Lumpy Grits]

X2 on gnd issues.
Do you have a FSM that shows the wiring?
Respectfully,
LG

[Jerry Bransford]

X2 on checking for a ground wire problem. A missing or bad/weak ground connection can cause all kinds of strange symptoms like that. If the wire is black, odds are it needs to be connected to the chassis or tub to provide a ground to a circuit.

[4wheelinmike]

i havent rally done anything to th wiring other then tap the power to my electric fans to the acc hot when on wire, run anothr cig lighter off of the stock on, and ground my switches for all my lights and fans under the oil fuel etc gauges right to i guess i can call it the metal dash...but the only diagram i have is the one in the chiltons manual. i cant find it on alldata at school but soon as i get home i'll check my grounds

[kirkandsylvia]

i havent rally done anything to th wiring other then tap the power to my electric fans to the acc hot when on wire, run anothr cig lighter off of the stock on, and ground my switches for all my lights and fans under the oil fuel etc gauges right to i guess i can call it the metal dash...but the only diagram i have is the one in the chiltons manual. i cant find it on alldata at school but soon as i get home i'll check my grounds

It is possible that the grounds for your switches for the lights might be the culperate. What part of the switch did you ground? It's been a while since I have messed with DC voltage, but I have never grounded a switch in a DC system. Has something changed with DC theory?

Typically on DC systems, the switch is just a "line (hot side of switch) and load (controlled side of switch)" from the battery to what ever it is controlling. In the description of your problem, things turning on by a switch that should be turning on something else could be a result of voltage being backfed. If you grounded switches, it is quite possible that you are energizing power to your chasis via a switch or two. I know it sounds impossible, but if you have ever worked on old VW's, you might know what I am refering to. They were notorious for that problem. My :2: would be to remove the grounds to the light and fan switches and see if that cures the problem.

[Jerry Bransford]

Using a switch to provide a ground for a light, relay, etc. to turn it on involves grounding one side of the switch. You can turn something on or off by switching either side of it, the + or - side.

[kirkandsylvia]

Using a switch to provide a ground for a light, relay, etc. to turn it on involves grounding one side of the switch. You can turn something on or off by switching either side of it, the + or - side.

Ok, that makes sense to break the ground as a means of switching. I have heard of it being used in circumstances where the potential for arc and flamables are present, but I guess I have never heard of it being used in autos. Point well taken, thank you for the refresher.

[Lumpy Grits]

Did you have these issues before you wiring mods??
If NO, then it's something you donediddo........
BTDT myownself.
BTW "breaking-the-gnd" is how AMC wired most of their junk.
Respectfully,
LG

[aw12345]

i havent rally done anything to th wiring other then tap the power to my electric fans to the acc hot when on wire, run anothr cig lighter off of the stock on, and ground my switches for all my lights and fans under the oil fuel etc gauges right to i guess i can call it the metal dash...but the only diagram i have is the one in the chiltons manual. i cant find it on alldata at school but soon as i get home i'll check my grounds

Well why don't you take the ground wires you added from under the ground wires for the gauges and ground them to the firewall on a clean, bare metal spot and use a starwasher underneath the wires. Also do not secure it with a sheetmetal screw, use a bolt and nut or an available ground stud you can generally find some under the dash on the firewall

[4wheelinmike]

I'm actually grounding the switch because I have the indicator led to tell me it's on but thanks for the help guys soon as I get off I'm going to look at all of ly grounds on my wires. But to answer your question lumpy I didn't have this problem before. I had it once before then I jiggled stuff around and it went away then it came back today. And also aw12345 why don't you use sheet metal screws? I just learned to grind some paint off and screw away.

[4wheelinmike]

Also this might be a stupid a question but why am I checking my grounds? Wouldn't it be short to power not short to ground? Or is the dash and cluster and all that stuff controlled on the ground side?

[aw12345]

When you have a bad ground, the current will use any available path to ground through light bulbs switches or what ever.This is called back feeding, take the ground cable from the engine to the frame of and see what happens, when you crank it ( please do not do this) it will illustrate the point, when the accelerator cable or something else lights up red hot.

[Lumpy Grits]

Current will take the most direct and easy route.
That's just the way it is.
About using sheetmetal screws, they will work for awhile(what AMC did)but will work loose and rust will form. DO use a stud with a star washer and nut.
FWIW: For grounds I try to use stainless steel hardware when I have it.
Respectfully,
LG