a little help getting started

[capt_random]

ok here we go. I'm a newbie and would like to get some modifications going in the next month or so. I've looked around the forums and I'm pretty sure I've managed to confuse myself even more while trying to learn about what I want to do, so I'm throwing this out to the crowd. I had somebody suggest that I start with lifting and putting some new 33" tires on, so that sounds like a plan to me but I could use some guidance here. oh and I'm shooting for spending around $700-900 so if you have some suggestions for new toys within that range speak up.

Tires: I'm going for the 33x9.50x15 BF Goodrich AT's. My question here is do I need different wheels? Perhaps not right now, but I've noticed a lot of folks mentioning that they run 12.5's. I'm not sure why... and if I go with these tires, will a 2" lift be enough?

Lift: It seems a lot of people recommend old man emu for lifts so I've looked at the 2" lift here: http://www.quadratec.com/products/16300_400.htm Although I'm not entirely clear on the different ways to lift a Jeep.

If you do the math on just those two items it puts me at around $780, before installation or shipping.
One last thing, don't be afraid to give too much information. I just figured out today that when people say LJ, they're talking about my Unlimited for christ's sake...

[YJwonderboy]

Your tire size REALLY depends on what you wheel and how you wheel!

31" tires are normally considered "Entry Level"

If you're gonna run 33's check your axles, as the Dana 35 is a flop of an axle and the 33's may prove to be problematic. I run 29x10.50's on stock wheels and have some scrubbing when I max the steering. Don't know about the wrangler, but some spacers up front wouldn't be a bad idea if you get tires that big. I think the 2" lift would allow you 33's but I doubt you'll get much clearance between the tire and wheel well. A 2" lift and 31's or 32's would be nice.

For lifts you've got a plethora of options on the wrangler. Long arms, short arms, coil spacers, body lifts...you name it. If you're gonna lift the Jeep, reguardless of what tire you're putting under it, make sure the lift is appropriate to the type of wheeling you wanna do.

My suggestion would be to armor the jeep up with some skid plates and rocker guards and do some light wheeling while the jeep is still unlifted. LEARN YOUR VEHICLE FIRST! Lifting the Jeep and having a capable rig does not necessarily mean you yourself are ready for what the rig is capable of.

So, in summary...before adding gismos and doodads, lifts and tires to the Jeep, learn what your stock vehicle can do. You'd be very VERY suprised what the LJ is capable of right out of the box (I know my Cherokee blew me away at what it could do the first time I ever put it through its paces.)

Alot of people will tell you to save your pennies and do it right the first time with lifts and tires, and I agree, but take your new baby out and get her dirty first. You will learn valuable driving experience, your own personal capabilities, your vehicle's capabilities, and with all that learned you can THEN take the information you learned and decide what equipment you will need.

Remember, have fun, be safe, and as the oh so brilliant organization say...tread lightly.

OH! Btw, you rock!

[capt_random]

thanks YJwonderboy.
I'm planning to take a trail next weekend to see how things feel. I don't intend to turn my Jeep into a monster crawler, but I would like to be able to jump off the highway from time to time. I'll admit that the tire variety has me confused. why the heck do they use metric and standard measurements???

Long arms or short arms - I don't understand that.

I would like to avoid having to do things over again just because I cut a corner the first time, so your message is well received.

[sahara0207]

first let me tell you some different types of lift and terms. lucky for you its slow at work

-body lift- is a spacer between the the body and the frame. they are put in the body mounts. thus lifting the wheel wells for more room

with out

with



-coil spacers- now this is what is in the kit you provided in your link. these will space the spring and the frame. giving the same lift as though you were to use longer coils. they are located at above the spring in the buckets usually. but in that kit you will be usin the same controll arms and same coils.



-suspension lift- these will include new coils that are taller and have different compression rates then the stockers. some flexier then others. some stiffer.



-short arm- the controll arms are mounted on the frame in stock location



-long arm- controll arms are mounted at the belly pan and are much longer. providing a better ride for tall lifts. as the steeper the controll arm angle the bumpier the ride.



-SYE kit- after 3-4 inches of a suspension lift you will prolly need to lessen the angle of the rear drive shaft. the SYE kit replaces the slip yoke (SE eliminator )stock tail shaft output(where your drive shaft mounts to the transfer case) with a fixed yoke. this shortens the length of the transfer case out put allowing you to utilize a longer cv drive shaft. this will lessen the angle and save the life of the u-joints and decrease any vibration

before

after


-transfer case drop- this will drop your crossmember (the skid under your jeep ) an inch or so so that the out put is at an angle decreasing the angle of the drive shaft. it works on the border of needing a SYE but decreases your clearance.

-u-joint- this is the joint on the drive shaft plane changes. sever angles decrease the life of these joints they will look like a cross

[Schmo]

Welcome to the madness!!! :bonk: I'm actually waiting for a 4" lift to be shipped and am going to 33's myself. Check around this forum and you'll find a ton of info. If you are looking to stay under 1000 bucks(good luck by the way) and really want to go to 33's (usually 5 tires alone will cost the better half of a grand) I'd recommend a 2" Budget Boost (shocks and spacers) and you can throw a 1" Body Lift to clear the 33's. This would probably be the cheapest route to clear 33's . . . from what I've heard 33's will rub once the sway bar is disconnected and you start to flex with just the 2" BB. Like others have mentioned, there's a lot to consider when you go over a 31" tire. It's funny, when I started looking into upgrading my Jeep I just figured . . . simple math . . . the tires are 2" bigger so I need a 2" lift, right . . . WRONG!!!

Although some may disagree and think it's a waste, I'm happy that I started off with a 2" BB even thougth 7-8 months later I'm upgrading. In my opinion the whole point of a BB is to get you out there and see what type of wheelin' you'd like to do and with 31's and a 2" BB you can get enough exposure to the types of trails out there so you can make the right decision when spending the big bucks! So I guess my advice, given that you are new to wheelin' and on a budget, would be:
2" BB
31" tires . . . Go with a Mud Terrain tire
Quick Disconnects
Rocker Guards
This will get you out there without breaking the bank, messing up your gearing, or putting to much stress on your diff, etc.

[capt_random]

first let me tell you some different types of lift and terms. lucky for you its slow at work

-body lift- is a spacer between the the body and the frame. they are put in the body mounts. thus lifting the wheel wells for more room

with out
with


-coil spacers- now this is what is in the kit you provided in your link. these will space the spring and the frame. giving the same lift as though you were to use longer coils. they are located at above the spring in the buckets usually. but in that kit you will be usin the same controll arms and same coils.


-suspension lift- these will include new coils that are taller and have different compression rates then the stockers. some flexier then others. some stiffer.


-short arm- the controll arms are mounted on the frame in stock location


-long arm- controll arms are mounted at the belly pan and are much longer. providing a better ride for tall lifts. as the steeper the controll arm angle the bumpier the ride.


-SYE kit- after 3-4 inches of a suspension lift you will prolly need to lessen the angle of the rear drive shaft. the SYE kit replaces the slip yoke (SE eliminator )stock tail shaft output(where your drive shaft mounts to the transfer case) with a fixed yoke. this shortens the length of the transfer case out put allowing you to utilize a longer cv drive shaft. this will lessen the angle and save the life of the u-joints and decrease any vibration

before
after

-transfer case drop- this will drop your crossmember (the skid under your jeep ) an inch or so so that the out put is at an angle decreasing the angle of the drive shaft. it works on the border of needing a SYE but decreases your clearance.

-u-joint- this is the joint on the drive shaft plane changes. sever angles decrease the life of these joints they will look like a cross

Thanks a lot for the great reply. Especially that bit about the s.y.e., which I wasn't understanding from other conversations. Ok so if I were to keep my lift within 2-3" I wouldn't need to worry about the longer arms right? I could use the body lift and coil spacers as a decent start without replacing the coils.
again thanks for walking me through so much.

[capt_random]

Welcome to the madness!!! :bonk: I'm actually waiting for a 4" lift to be shipped and am going to 33's myself. Check around this forum and you'll find a ton of info. If you are looking to stay under 1000 bucks(good luck by the way) and really want to go to 33's (usually 5 tires alone will cost the better half of a grand) I'd recommend a 2" Budget Boost (shocks and spacers) and you can throw a 1" Body Lift to clear the 33's. This would probably be the cheapest route to clear 33's . . . from what I've heard 33's will rub once the sway bar is disconnected and you start to flex with just the 2" BB. Like others have mentioned, there's a lot to consider when you go over a 31" tire. It's funny, when I started looking into upgrading my Jeep I just figured . . . simple math . . . the tires are 2" bigger so I need a 2" lift, right . . . WRONG!!!

Although some may disagree and think it's a waste, I'm happy that I started off with a 2" BB even thougth 7-8 months later I'm upgrading. In my opinion the whole point of a BB is to get you out there and see what type of wheelin' you'd like to do and with 31's and a 2" BB you can get enough exposure to the types of trails out there so you can make the right decision when spending the big bucks! So I guess my advice, given that you are new to wheelin' and on a budget, would be:
2" BB
31" tires . . . Go with a Mud Terrain tire
Quick Disconnects
Rocker Guards
This will get you out there without breaking the bank, messing up your gearing, or putting to much stress on your diff, etc.

Well said and thanks! I think I may have jumped the gun by thinking about 33's right away so I'm looking at the 31 tire. Could you explain the Quick Disconnects suggestion? I've seen quite a bit about guys replacing Rocker Guards, and I understand where they go, but I don't understand why. I have a few books coming in the mail that should help me get some of this stuff on my own but until then I appreciate the patience.

[Schmo]

Well said and thanks! I think I may have jumped the gun by thinking about 33's right away so I'm looking at the 31 tire. Could you explain the Quick Disconnects suggestion? I've seen quite a bit about guys replacing Rocker Guards, and I understand where they go, but I don't understand why. I have a few books coming in the mail that should help me get some of this stuff on my own but until then I appreciate the patience.

Rocker Guards basically protect the area under the door from wheelwell to wheelwell. It's very common to hit this part of the Jeep when going over or around large rocks. Many of the rocker guards also have a bar that will stick out to give added protection and also to use as a pivit point if you find yourself in a tight squeeze. I've beat the hell out of mine and wouldn't want to be without them.

The Disconnects allow you to easily disconnect your front swaybar which will give you a lot more flex. You can disconnect the stock one without too much effort, but the quick disconnects just make it easier and eliminate the need to wrench under the Jeep before and after the trail.

[capt_random]

The Disconnects allow you to easily disconnect your front swaybar which will give you a lot more flex. You can disconnect the stock one without too much effort, but the quick disconnects just make it easier and eliminate the need to wrench under the Jeep before and after the trail.

Ah-ha. I understand the quick disconnect now. Then you just take the sway bar off when you go wheeling?
I just read something about what the sway bar does and how it works so I'm pretty sure I get why you wouldn't want it connected while wheeling. oh and thanks again...

[Schmo]

Ah-ha. I understand the quick disconnect now. Then you just take the sway bar off when you go wheeling?

You don't really take it off, you just disconnect it and then either strap it up to the top of your fender (if you look under the front fender you'll see a spot where you can either attach a bungie cord or use some strong zip ties to hold the sway bar up and out of the way) or a lot of the kits will come with studs that can be mounted to the frame and you can hook the swaybar onto the studs when disconnected to keep it out of the way.

Keep an eye on the for sale section as the pair of JKS Quicker Disco's that I'm running with my 2" won't fit the 4" I'm getting so you'll probably see them up for sale here soon!!!

[maddmike]

First off, welcome to the board

I'm going to give you some advice, go ahead and take it or leave it but it looks like you're willing to take it, so here it is.

First off, your post is incredibly helpful at explaining how much you want to spend, your skill level, and what you intend to do with the vehicle, and I think you're going to get much better comments from people because of this.

To begin, I will fully agree with this comment:

My suggestion would be to armor the jeep up with some skid plates and rocker guards and do some light wheeling while the jeep is still unlifted. LEARN YOUR VEHICLE FIRST! Lifting the Jeep and having a capable rig does not necessarily mean you yourself are ready for what the rig is capable of.

So, in summary...before adding gismos and doodads, lifts and tires to the Jeep, learn what your stock vehicle can do. You'd be very VERY suprised what the LJ is capable of right out of the box (I know my Cherokee blew me away at what it could do the first time I ever put it through its paces.)

I ran my TJ bone stock, no lockers, nothing, for 12 full months before I got a lift. the only thing I upgraded were the tires. You would be surprised at what a good set of tires will let you do and help you get through, and then as had been posted by others, you can use this time to see what you really want to do with the rig before spending gobs of money that you're not sure you're spending properly yet. I quickly discovered 1) learning the rig and how to drive it and 2) what you can actually do with a stock wrangler (not even a rubi).

Depending on the type of wheeling you're going to do, you may or may not need to dis-connect the sway bar, as I see you are from maryland where i can make an educated guess that all you're going to see is a lot of mud all the time, and it may not be necessary to gain all the extra articulation you will achieve with the sway bar removed. although you could try wheeling with it disconnected and see if it's useful to you.

If you stick with 31" tires and no lift for now, you won't need to change anything on the jeep (gear ratios, control arms, no rubbing issues, stock brakes, stock axles). You will also save a few hundred dollars that you can use to put towards some rock rails, although, i'm not sure how many rocks you're going to see in maryland so they may not be necessary.

the last comment I will post is regarding tire selection. being that you are from a part of the country that actually sees "real" 4 seasons and lots of rain, I would suggest finding a tire that will work well on ice and snow, will clean very well in the mud, and is just a generally all-around good light off-road tire. Remember you will probably drive on the street much more than off-road, and coming from NY I can vouch for the importance of a good all-season radial tire over a "rock-crawling" style tire as we tend to run out here in sunny california

I don't have too many recommendations about the tires, although I ran BFGoodrich radial all-terrains on another 4WD back on the east coast once, and can say they worked VERY well for me during winter months and also generally all-around. even took them on the trails a few times, although i've heard from others that they are absolutely horrible in thick mud. maybe some others can provide some other thoughts.

best of luck, and hope you spend your money wisely and end up a happy part of the community.

PS don't be afraid to keep posting with more questions or information, we don't bite here (or at least most of the time )

[capt_random]

You don't really take it off, you just disconnect it and then either strap it up to the top of your fender (if you look under the front fender you'll see a spot where you can either attach a bungie cord or use some strong zip ties to hold the sway bar up and out of the way) or a lot of the kits will come with studs that can be mounted to the frame and you can hook the swaybar onto the studs when disconnected to keep it out of the way.

Keep an eye on the for sale section as the pair of JKS Quicker Disco's that I'm running with my 2" won't fit the 4" I'm getting so you'll probably see them up for sale here soon!!!

Alright I got it, plus you told me what the abbreviation "disco's" stood for. Oh yes I'm learning the benefits of eyeballing the for sale section for used parts - even if I haven't taken advantage yet. It seems several guys have walked away very happy. cool and thanks.

[capt_random]

Thanks for the post and welcome maddmike. I am taking my Jeep out this Saturday for an easy run to see how she handles some mudd. I have discovered that several people find the idea of wheeling stock pretty important when it comes to learning and understanding what needs to be done to the Jeep. I'm going to wait on the lift for a bit, but I have brought down the tire desire and decided to go with 31's for now. I've asked several jeepers here in MD and they all agree that getting some armor on is wisest first move so that's what I'm shopping for. oh and my budget...depending on what the tax man says I may revise

I think my biggest problem is that I'm feeling impatient to make some mods as I've owned the Jeep since Sept and haven't done anything except buy seat covers. However since I'm not made of money I'm sure I can overcome some urges

[maddmike]

However since I'm not made of money I'm sure I can overcome some urges

True, the lack of money definitely helps control the urges, preventing them from becoming an actual purchase.

[YJwonderboy]

I think my biggest problem is that I'm feeling impatient to make some mods as I've owned the Jeep since Sept and haven't done anything except buy seat covers. However since I'm not made of money I'm sure I can overcome some urges

How do you think I feel? I've owned two jeeps, a YJ and my current XJ. Neither of which were/are upgraded. (Although I did finally get tow hooks for the XJ...) I'm just slowly building a cash fund to upgrade with. I've owned my Cherokee since may of '07 and the best thing she's got for upgrades is a high volume Conical filter and 29x10.50 Super Swampers

It helps to be patient to find great deals! I just got my tow hooks for free ^.^